Sage and Simms at Costco?

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Philster, Mar 31, 2011.

  1. Lugan

    Lugan Joe Streamer

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    That depends on the ownership structure of a company. If the company is owned by outside investors including private investors or shareholders who can trade the stock on a public exchange, then the answer is "grow" because the investors want a positive return. If you were an investor in that company, you'd want a positive return too (except maybe in corner cases where investments are made by wealthy individuals for altruistic reasons). If the company is family-owned or a simple partnership between two or a few individuals, then the answer could still be "grow", but with flexibility to tone that down.

    Which brings up the obvious question: Who owns Scott? What about Sage and Simms?
     
  2. Kim McDonald

    Kim McDonald member

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    Another great story on this is Timbuk2 bags (you know, those "hip" messenger bags being the last thing you see as someone mows you down with their no-gear bike on 3rd and James in Seattle?). For years Timbuk2 made their canvas bags in San Francisco. As they gained in popularity, they gave more choices in materials, colors, sizes (the big is better idea). But they were still proudly made in the US. However, "growth strategies" prevailed and in the mid-2000s, the started having their bags made overseas except for the "custom made" ones you can order on-line. Filson is another example. Their CEO is from Patagonia (the company, not Argentina). And now, some of their products have the "imported" in the description (don't go nuts on me guys, I said some of their products...). Chaco was mentioned in the article but they, too, now manufacture many of their sandals overseas (not all, just most of them).

    I frankly think being in the sport specialty goods business is extremely difficult. I admire the companies who have endured. Even though I don't necessarily believe Patagonia quality has remained the same, the company remains in Yvon's family, they haven't sold out like Mountain Hardware, Arcteryx, Cloudveil, North Face, Marmot, so somehow they must be able to walk a fine line between profits, a livelihood for family and employees, and still expand. And it is much harder for companies like Sage, Simms, Scott, Winston. because their markets are limited and from what I understand, shrinking. They have to convince people that the it's time to mothball that "favorite" rod, reel, pair of waders. It's a harder sell than $100 on a new fleece something or other.

    That said, I think it's tricky to be immune from the lure of cheaper manufacturing costs.
     
  3. Kim McDonald

    Kim McDonald member

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    Here is a link on Sage from the Secretary of State (in Washington State):

    http://www.sos.wa.gov/corps/search_detail.aspx?ubi=600301383

    My recollection is that an investment trust or hedge fund owns Sage (which the names of the directors would indicate something like that type of structure). Their registered agent is Davis Wright, a very large (and pricey) law firm in Seattle.

    Kim
     
  4. GATOR9

    GATOR9 Hey you guys

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    I just heard that K-Mart is selling Winston rods and Simms waders for under $150.00. The closest store to me is like 275 miles away but what a deal so I'm heading out in my truck in about 10 mins. I'll let you know how I do, I can hardly wait to get there. :beer1:
     
  5. Nailknot

    Nailknot Active Member

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    never mind
     
  6. Kent Lufkin

    Kent Lufkin Remember when you could remember everything?

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    I'd venture that most companies don't voluntarily choose to manufacture offshore so much as their customer demand it through their preference for a lower price point. I think that as Americans, we all want to keep manufacturing jobs here in the US. But as consumers, nobody willingly pays a higher price for something. It's in our nature to try to 'drive a hard bargain' and get something for less than a stated retail price. That's why the notion of buying something 'on sale' is so appealing, or why we try so hard to negotiate a lower price when buying a car or a house.

    The inherent contradiction though is that we can't have it both ways. Goods manufactured here are more expensive because American labor is higher paid than workers in say, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka or China. Would you work for $4 a day? A lot of American crops go unpicked right now for the equivalent of $8 an hour.

    I had this very conversation today with Chris Callanan, the director of sales and marketing for Outcast boats. Turns out that all but one of their pontoon boats is made offshore. Why? Customers don''t want to pay a premium price for a US-made boat when an offshore one costs half as much. Sadly, he told me that the US-made frames simply didn't have the quality or consistency as those made offshore even though they cost twice as much. But it wasn't like Outcast set out to offshore their products - that's what the market demanded, even though most of us are embarrassed to admit it.

    K
     
  7. Caveman

    Caveman Member

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  8. LMFOA

    LMFOA New Member

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    Bingo.
     
  9. BDD

    BDD Active Member

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    Kent, I agree with almost all of what you posted as I do with most things you post. And even the part above in quotes may be true at very high production levels. However, I still firmly believe that the frames we build one-at-a-time in North Bend, WA will beat offshore frames in both consistency, quality, and durability every time. Yeah, they do cost more as you would expect.

    At the 2011 Washington Sportman Show, in two days working the booth, I had three different people tell me their experience with offshore frames they had got at big box stores; how they had literally fallen apart while floating down the river. Our builder has only had one return for repair out of more than a thousand he's built in 15 years. And that was because the guy ran over it with his truck.

    Yes, you are correct. However there are exceptions.
     
  10. Lugan

    Lugan Joe Streamer

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    Before you call someone and idiot, you might check your spelling or your insult will boomerang.
     
  11. Go Fish

    Go Fish Language, its a virus

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    So many things we buy have become
    commodities which means that price
    is primary because of options, with
    that interweb thing. So instead of
    shopping at the local Gig Harbor shop
    I've found a better deal in Auckland.
    Now I like the guys at the shop but
    if I can save x amount of bucks well,
    hell.

    I love my Sage RPL and if they sold them
    at Costco for a great price, I'd get two.

    Dave
     
  12. Jerry Daschofsky

    Jerry Daschofsky Moderator Staff Member

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    Gearhead, it's not that at all. I could care less if they did. The problem is the method they went about getting the stock. They do this to TONS of people, not just fishing. The stigma that comes with Costco cheapens a product. Doubt anyone who deals with any industries would argue that.
     
  13. Jerry Daschofsky

    Jerry Daschofsky Moderator Staff Member

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    I agree BDD, I know who your builder is now, I've had a few of his frames. He does great work. But yeah, if you put him on a scale where he had to put out 300-600 frames a day, that may take a toll on him and his quality. And yeah, those off shore frames had thier quirks back in the day, but I haven't really dealt with one in years. Most of my frames have been customs over the years (outside the Steelheader frames).
     
  14. generic

    generic Active Member

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    That Jerry, is it in a nutshell. Well put.
     
  15. Fat Lady

    Fat Lady Member

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    :rofl: