Sage One at costco...

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by WA-Fly, Jun 28, 2013.

  1. dflett68

    dflett68 Active Member

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    mythology. costco does not go to the trouble of getting these small lots of specialty/seasonal product through back channels so they can sell them at a loss. they don't need "doorbusters" to get traffic. you can't even walk through the door without being a member, and no one is a member simply so they can have the option of getting one or two great deals a year when something they really want shows up as a "loss leader". they are making money on every unit. the most striking implication to me is that whoever made the unauthorized sale of these rods to costco also made money on every unit, which implies that all the way back up the food chain to sage, everyone made money on every unit, and there was still enough margin for costco to make money at $300 off map. that's a minimum of three separate markups, with a strong probability of 4 or more, but there was still enough profit built in to support a price that allegedly is putting fly shops out of business left and right. if i was the fly shop owner, i wouldn't be bitching about competition, i'd be after sage for an explanation of how they could sell low enough to ANYONE at any volume to make it possible down the line for costco to make money 3 markups downstream from the manufacturer, and nearly 40% below map. no one should be feeling sorry for sage unless they are just embarrassed for them. but as jesse pointed out, their core customers don't care about paying that much, so it doesn't matter.
     
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  2. JesseC

    JesseC Active Member

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    Yeah you're totally right!

    Sage ought to charge a $25 profit margin on every rod they make and sell them at $250. That'll surely keep all the awesome local fly shops in business. Maybe the fly shops can keep $15 off each rod? That'll be really awesome because it'll make it really easy for all of us to coordinate our shopping on the ONE day they can all afford to open their doors.

    I see Leland also liked your post. I'm looking forward to picking up a Helios 2 for $250 in Bellevue tomorrow as well!

    Come on guys...

    Costco doesn't make much of a margin on what they sell. It's all about volume for them and the likes of wal-mart. There's nothing wrong with it. However, in order for us all to enjoy going into a shop to buy the maybe one rod a year we buy.... you need a bit more reasonable of a business model and margins to support it.

    Well, unless you want to shop at costco for the rest of your fly fishing needs.
     
  3. freestoneangler

    freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

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    Listening to all this reminds me why I buy most of my rods used (or make my own)...only one middle man trying to scalp me and with folks like Jesse around, there is sure to be a constant inventory of last years, outdated models to choose from :D.
     
  4. Chad Lewis

    Chad Lewis NEVER wonder what to do with your free time

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    Disagree, whether it's Sage or any other business. There's no money to be made in retail by selling at low profit margins, especially low volume movers like fly gear. A $200 Reddington or St. Croix will have the same markup percentage as a Sage, although there might be a little added for "top of the line" rods line the One, Helios, NRX, or whatever. Markups in retail are 100% or better no matter what you're selling. Simply how the market works.

    Is Sage turning a blind eye to Costco having their rods? I don't know. Apparently the last time this happened they bought all the rods back from Costco, making me believe they don't like what's happening. Can they keep doing that and stay afloat? Probably not. I'm sure there's not a pile of "buy rods back from Costco" money in the safe.

    As far as punishing whoever's responsible for the rods being at Costco, Sage's hands are probably tied. Someone at Sage knows how those rods got into Costco, guaranteed. A company that size can't have many distributors to deal with. But, there can only be so many distributors in the business to deal with. Burning that bridge may lead to crippling Sage's distribution with no other options for distribution. And of course finding a new distributor and setting everything up costs money. Maybe they're using "cheap" distributors and getting what they pay for, and maybe that's why Orvis rods aren't showing up in Costco.

    Bottom line is we don't know what's going on. Sure is fun to guess though. What's for sure is Costco will get what they want no matter what the manufacturer thinks about it. The North Face has had the same issue with Costco and had to buy back product. I personally know of two different North Face jackets bought at unauthorized retailers and sent to The North Face for warranty reasons. Both were returned to the owners with nicely worded letters saying that they'd bought a fake. I've never heard of a bogus fishing rod, but someone took advantage of a company's aggressive buying tactics on those jackets. Buyer beware.
     
  5. Freestone

    Freestone Not to be confused with freestoneangler

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    Costco is currently being sued by Tiffany for violating their trademark by knowingly selling fake Tiffany rings.
     
  6. dflett68

    dflett68 Active Member

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    jesse i love your posts and i won't even try to compete with your wit, but that wasn't a very vigorous treatment of the problem this creates between sage and fly shops. i'm not even suggesting sage charges too much. from my perspective, there's a market that supports their product and their price point so more power to them. their market believes their product is that much better than the lower price points, so more power to the markets. what i get tired of is the endless sign waving for the specialty retailers, as if they were owed something by the market place and the consumer - they aren't. here are the players in this game:

    manufacturer
    fly shop
    costco (competition)
    slimy distributor not well vetted by sage (competition)
    consumer

    who amongst these players owes anything to the fly shop in business terms? the consumer? he has already paid for what he wanted so far. that's the transaction. done. how about the competition? ridiculous. that leaves sage, the one party with a real stake in and obligation to supporting the fly shop through loyalty, good faith, integrity, etc. and all i'm saying is, if i was the fly shop, i'd be looking at sage and wondering why they kept letting blocks of product slip into the hands of people they obviously do not know well enough to do business with reliably, while holding me to map in spite of this repeated phenomenon. if the fly shops deserve support, it's from sage. costco hasn't done something wrong. sage has released a product into the market place which, by the time it gets to costco, still has enough margin to make them money. comes with the territory when you are selling a premium product with, not REASONABLE, but GIGANTIC margins baked in.

    if people have the money and want to pay sage $800 for COGS of say $150-$200, why should anybody care?
     
  7. Tim Cottage

    Tim Cottage Formerly tbc1415

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    I think there is a larger dose of reality in this post than the last 80 posts combined.

    TC
     
  8. GATOR9

    GATOR9 Hey you guys

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    I for one am quite happy that we have a choice in our pursuits of joy. This is really what it is all about, choice. Chastise me if you will but If I can purchase the same thing at a savings then I damn will do so and I do indeed spread my money around, have always done so and will continue to do so, more so now that I am 65, retired and in that fixed income group as they say. Oh and the Costco in Yakima had the Sage Approach 5wt., but did ot need another one. I already have a Sage, Winston, Echo and a couple other lesser brand names for b/ups, love choices.:)
     
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  9. Old Man

    Old Man Just an Old Man

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    I'm surprised that this thread on Selling a name brand of a fly rod at a big box store has gone 5 pages. Do most of you really care that they are selling Sage fly rods at Costco. Not me.
     
  10. Flyborg

    Flyborg Active Member

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    Yeah but you're old. You don't much care about anything at this point.
     
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  11. PT

    PT Physhicist

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    A few more threads like this one that you don't care about and you'll be up to 20k in posts......... <two thumbs up to the guy who doesn't give a sch.t>
     
  12. zen leecher aka bill w

    zen leecher aka bill w born to work, forced to fish

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    Jim can't afford a Sage so that's why he doesn't have an opinion. Actually I'm working my way into that "boat" also. Pretty soon I'll only fish rods I get at garage sales or find along the side of the road.
     
  13. Old Man

    Old Man Just an Old Man

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    I have a Sage rod. I just don't praise it to the heavens. I have 2 GLoomis rods. Both 2 piece. I prefer the 4 piece rods. I use the Sage to nymph fish in the winter time. It a DS2 9' 6wt.

    I'm Not over joyed on the price of fly rods. The most I paid for one was $210.00 bucks. I wouldn't pay that much now for a rod.

    The fish don't give a rats ass as to what rod and line and reel I use. If you need to spend big bucks on rods and reel it has to be a prestige thing. My loops are tight and I don't need to do many false casts to get my line out. I guess that after you have been fly fishing a while you will learn the how's and why's of fly fishing.
     
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  14. PT

    PT Physhicist

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    Old Man, it has nothing to do with prestige. If that's what you think about people fishing with more expensive (usually better) gear then you ought to open the shades a little wider. Or, you can continue viewing life thru that little porthole you see it thru now.

    Why'd you spend a few grand on that truck rather than an old Yugo? Are you not competent enough to drive an older rig? Trying to impress the neighbors with that truck rather than an old beater? Or, are there things the truck offers that an old Yugo doesn't?

    I can fish my old ($110 when it was new) 4 wt Loomis Premier or the 6wt Lamiglas I bought in the late 80's but I'd rather cast my 4 wt Sage LL or 6wt XP. Maybe it's the years I've spent flyfishing that has given me the experience to know the difference between the two and prefer one over the other.

    Not everybody has your wealth of fly rod knowledge so maybe they are seeking out something that can never be found......?
     
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  15. PT

    PT Physhicist

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    Old Man, mebbe you're just not a good enough fly caster to be able to tell the difference between a great rod and a mediocre rod....? Just like snow skiing, if you're not a great skier you can't tell the difference between good skis and bad... I always thought I skied like Steve Mahre until my bro-in-law filmed me on Crystal. Pretty much concluded I was just a hack out there wasting a good set of skis.

    Maybe you can't tell the difference between the One and a DS2. Nothing wrong with that. Hell, just because you can't tell the difference in rods doesn't mean you can't enjoy flyfishing. After all it's just about being able to get out, right?

    :)