Save the Burley Lagoon

Discussion in 'Saltwater' started by Sonny, Feb 7, 2009.

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What is the best solution for Burley Lagoon/ 302?

  1. Build North of the lagoon by building a road off Hwy16

    15 vote(s)
    34.9%
  2. 302 is fine the way it is don't do anything.

    4 vote(s)
    9.3%
  3. Just destroy the lagoon and build a bridge through the middle of it

    24 vote(s)
    55.8%
  1. Jim Speaker

    Jim Speaker Active Member

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    Hysterical register, nice... But, wow, that's just kinda... dumb. After driving over it frequently I can say, there is a reason it's the last of it's kind. It sucks. Designating a little chunk of highway as historical??? Sorry... still can believe that. :beathead:
     
  2. floatinghat

    floatinghat Member

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    Larry, BI already has one bridge isn't that enough :).
     
  3. Jan

    Jan New Member

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    Bill,

    Burley Lagoon was home to an eletrical transformer scrapping facility for years:

    http://response.restoration.noaa.go....php?entry_id=76&subtopic_id=20&audience_id=2

    If any of you eat oysters, I hope you like them iwth de-icing flavoring, with a touch of 10W40.

    To make matters worse, the bridge routes suggested also have onerous impact on upland forests, wetlands and open spaces essential for the critical species noted to reside in the area.

    How will the state pay the 100+ million for this bridge that will, by their own studies, save 3 minutes for the average commuter in their study? With a cash strapped budget, they can only raise taxes again or maybe put a toll on your nice new 4 lane bridge.

    FWIW, I cross the bridge each way daily as a KPN resident and am hopeful that the significant safety and minor congestion issues will be addressed by WSDOT, Pierce and Kitsap Counties. But, right now WSDOT is operating in isolation.

    Well, that is two posts guys and as a fisherman, the welcome snarl about # of posts is not a great opener.
     
  4. Jerry Daschofsky

    Jerry Daschofsky Moderator Staff Member

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  5. floatinghat

    floatinghat Member

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    Jerry, I don't know the extent of the clean up but this sounds nasty enought to let you have my share of the oysters.


    "As a result, soil and sediment throughout the site were contaminated with PCB compounds, and some areas contained elevated concentrations of dioxins produced by the burning of PCBs.

    Surface runoff and shallow groundwater from the site discharge to an on-site, spring-fed stream that flows into Burley Lagoon"
     
  6. Ed Call

    Ed Call Mumbling Moderator Staff Member

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    I eat oysters from my neighborhood's beach. We have a boat launch and can see the HC Bridge. No new bridge activity there will create a negative long term problem. I recommend that down in Purdy they leave it alone or do a proper environmental impact study to determine what is best for the environment. As for Bainbridge, a second bridge on the south end to Port Orchard or Bremerton would be nice for many reasons. Most of those reasons likely would not be well received by those living in the rural south end of Bainbridge...but sure would bring some more vehicles and their shoppers to Winslow. I agree with Larry that this could make the Bremerton to Seattle ferry run through Rich Passage at "no wave" speed and its hour crossing obsolete.
     
  7. Go Fish

    Go Fish Language, its a virus

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    I driive that bridge every day to and from work.
    It sucks and is dangerous. It should be replaced as should
    this lame excuse of a poll.....

    Would you rather

    1) Pave over Burley Lagoon destroying the habitat?
    2) Have a sharp stick in the eye?
    3) Be infested with butt mites?
     
  8. bcrist

    bcrist New Member

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    Provocative thread on all counts. I make mutliple trips weekly across the spit and at all hours (Residence in Grapeview). I think we can all agree that at best, the traffic situation (in Purdy, across the bridge, and for the first five miles or so after the bridge) is inefficient, and at worst, unsafe. Improvements would be wonderful.

    In e-mail exchanges with the State Senator for the jurisdiction regarding the issue, it is evident that the State DOT and other departments are collaborating on feasibility studies right now, which will consider, among other things, the broad-scale environmental impact, including the fishery.

    Previous posts have suggested the unavoidable conflicts of interest when those who conduct the Studies at public expense, either are, or represent those who will be awarded construction public construction dollars....a little like having the inmates design the prison....As such, when and if study result comes back next year confirming an inconsequential impact on the anadromous fish in the lagoon (for option 10...see the website) you can bet I'll be skeptical, based on my own, albeit laypersons' observations.

    Lastly, everyone knows that this is a great shoreline for SRC. Additionally two-three small creeks thatthe lagoon north of the Purdy Bridge. There are currently no hatchery programs north of Minter. Those waiting period salmon that collect north of the bridge are wild (and trout too) and for such a "small run" as an earlier poster described, I was casting routinely over large groups of Coho this fall. Those fish caught and released were all wild fish. There is a small Chum run too BTW.

    Obviously this is a fisherman's forum and those that post here typically have significant sympathies to preservation and conservation. For me, no amount of traffic time saved is worth it if there is a threat to a native salmon run, irrespective of the size of the run. Driver and Pedestrian safey is another matter, but I believe that there are proposed alternatives that will cause a smaller disturbance to the marine and estuary environment.

    As such, I will not be personally supporting any bridge structure (through lobby efforts, financial contributions, or otherwise) that comes anywhere near the northern part of this estuary. I will actively suppport efforts that either postone this project until objective evidence can be gathered from multiple sources (my preference) or push the project further to North (both of which would extend a considerable inconvenience to me and my family).

    My two cents...
     
  9. floatinghat

    floatinghat Member

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    I would think something like this could actually be the answer for the region. While some may not want the increased population on the "West Side".

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submerged_floating_tunnel

    We would need the Navys input for the subs. Charge a reasonable toll, one exit in Winslow, Widen 305 and the Agate Pass bridge. I would thing it would create and immediate opportunity for some large employers to move facilities west? While not every result would be positive it could eliminate the busiest of the ferry runs.

    Terrorist target, no more than the GG, Bay, 90, 520, Eisenhower....
    $$$$$ fed funds are going to become available.

    Just a thought.
     
  10. Jan

    Jan New Member

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    Hey Jerry,

    Thanks for giving me a new title! Never been a Guru before. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guru)

    So, the issue with this particular saltwater marshland is that it does not flush and is very, very shallow so all runoff (some noted that the failing septic drainfields were a problem) builds up in the sediment layers, which feed small microorganisms, which continue up the chain, including oysters, and then to humans. The impact of direct highway runoff with all the various pollutants that collect on the road surface is that it will embed in those same sediments and add to the food chain as have the fecal coliform bateria from farmlands and septic systems around the lagoon. But humans are not the only creatures impacted by this. I have watched seaguls pick up those oysters at low tide, fly high and then drop them to the beach to break the shells to eat them. The local fishery also feeds on this same contaminated food chain, and those salmon we were thinking about are food for humans as well as Orcas. While I have personally seen 4 Orcas and 2 Gray whales in the lagoon over the past 10 years, I wonder how many of those fish find their way as food outside the lagoon? Local marine biologists are declaring that the Southern Orca (Puget Sound pods) are dying due to their diet of contaminated salmon...

    It is a big environmental chain. My view is that we should not do something that costs more than 100 million dollars to save 3 minutes that would cause further harm to such a sensitive system. I think we can and should hold those WSDOT engineers accountable to remediate our safety problems, address our congestion issues and stay out of the lagoon. These are all doable, but the key conflict is convenience to get to my driveway, something I cannot support. I see the solutions here being aggregation of a number of smaller components, not slapping a bridge up to create a straight line.
     
  11. Jan

    Jan New Member

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    Mike,

    That existing bridge will be retired on 2035 for vehicular traffic whether they do anything or not. So at some point it will cease to exist, they might as well plan for that now. This needs to be a part of the citizen message to WSDOT while the public comment period is open (closing this Friday, 2/13).
     
  12. Jerry Daschofsky

    Jerry Daschofsky Moderator Staff Member

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    LOL, let me tell you this much. Spent almost 15 years delivering out there every day. I know the area, and how it works and how it flushes. The amount of unregulated septics (and some that were directly just dumping without a septic tank at all) probably has as big, if not bigger effect then what you're proposing. I have no studies on this, but have spent enough time there at low tide during a hot day to tell you the smells coming are of septic origin.

    You don't have to quote wikipedia. I'll keep this thread open for now, but will discuss it with the other mod and admin about it's true worth to the site.

    But here's why I called you a guru. Why bring up the oysters? If you know so much about it there (which I know I do) there is very little public oyster beds there. Most are privately owned. Now, if you want to say "Well those oysters are the ones you are buying from the stores". Well, for years these oysters at the Purdy spit have been trucked to cleaner water to siphon themselves out before being sold. That's the reason why Minterbrook has their operation so far down around the corner away from the spit.

    Onto the salmon. There is resident salmon, and most of the fish that mill around the spit usually are heading back to Minter Creek to spawn. I do know about any creek will have a few run up them. It's the nature of the beast. But the starter of this thread (I think it was them) saying fish they caught had an adipose so it's wild shows that this person knows NOTHING about fishing. Do you know how many wild fish I've caught over the years with full adipose? Guess what? I've had many (as in hundreds) get scanned and snouts wacked off by fish checkers because they were hatchery fish. Fin clipping isn't an accurate science.

    I'm all for fixing the problem. I've spent many a days crossing that stinking bridge. You guys think it's bad with your personal vehicles, try doing it with a commercial vehicle. I've actually had mirrors torn off when two of us driving commercial vehicles passed at same time. That bridge needs to be changed. But I'm afraid to tell you unless it's totally closed down, it'll still get all of it's pressure. Why would someone head up the road when they could easily turn where they are at.

    I think my biggest problem is someone trying to bring their fight here. I can understand if it's a long standing (or even a fairly new member) doing it, as long as they've participated on the site. But this is pure trolling for support over a bridge that is going to displace the original poster (I do believe he said he'd have to move). So I see some bias there. Especially over how he worded the poll above. No class at all IMHO.

    I'm all for the WSDOT making a fix. Just funny how if it impacts someone in a way they don't like, it's automatically thrown out and they bring up as much as they can to discredit it. Funny how you guys have signed up here and made your case. But I've yet to see you go into incorporated Gig Harbor and solicit the shopping districts to post signs up about this. It's all good when you can sit on a computer and do it, but yet to see it in the busy traffic zones of Gig Harbor. And trust me, you haven't. I'd know, since now I spend all day in the busiest part of Gig Harbor.
     
  13. Jerry Daschofsky

    Jerry Daschofsky Moderator Staff Member

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    Oh, and onto the planning. I can see why they've put it where they have. Makes the easiest cuts, a nice straight away, would follow right up 144th street and make a direct connection to SR302 right near Lake Kathryn with minimal turns. I'm not sure who did the design work on your site, but would have to say they really didn't think things through. Why even have the traffic spur up 66th near Cenex up to the spur road? Why not just have the state make an offramp directly leading off? Makes no sense to try and run all that traffic along the lagoon. Talk about adding more crap and runoff from cars near the headwaters. You'll have cars running right along side of it. Which means having to widen the road along the lagoon and adding more construction along the body of water. At least this way you'd have one point for the major construction by the lagoon on the northernmost outlet to the lagoon. But I can see your route, and would affect alot more people. The building up on 118th would hit alot of people's properties. Way more then the two/three scenerios shown. Have you driven this route alot? I know I have. Major culverts would have to be put in, plus you'd have construction being done on Minter Creek at that point. Minter snakes around 118th Ave for quite a bit. So now you're adding more waste coming off the roads into a creek that actually has a salmon hatchery on it. Did you think about that? Also there is Minterbrooks oyster operation at the mouth of Minter Creek as well. Has impact studies been done for that as well?

    I'm not a political guy. But I've spent most of my work career in Gig Harbor. I consider alot of my customers family, and have a great respect for the area. But I hate people who do stuff like this. I can understand wanting to stop this, but from what I see it's a "Save me first, care about the rest later" aspect.
     
  14. Jerry Daschofsky

    Jerry Daschofsky Moderator Staff Member

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    Oh, and have to add an apology to Sonny. At least he didn't sign up on the board to post this. His first post was a few months back about chums showing up in Minter. But still, was dead on board for post #2 until this one.
     
  15. Jan

    Jan New Member

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    One more post Jerry and you get to 3,000 even. Is there a prize? Please talk with your moderators, close the thread, delete it, whatever you think is proper. One thing for sure is that you are not a welcoming individual to a newbie here. But then, this is your place since you have been here longest.

    Cheers.