Scadden pontoons.....

Discussion in 'Watercraft' started by Tschu, Jan 6, 2012.

  1. Ed Call

    Ed Call Mumbling Moderator Staff Member

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    Shapp, you know I'm a novice on the sticks. I like to row, I like to fish. I go down rivers that allow me to do both. I don't know what they are rated, likely the sketchiest stuff is II+ to III for me in my 14' NRS framed, Maxxon tubed cataraft, Scadden Assault or Guide. I've though about going to 16' Maxxons for some "bigger water" but gnarly whitewater is not really what I'm looking for. I'm a fly fisherman that likes to use an inflatable boat to get from here to there. I've got some whitewater friends that want to show me more than I'm currently ready for, intrigued, but for fishing the Scadden crafts are fine, just like many others. I'm not sure where I saw that the original request was about gnarly whitewater and scadden boats.

    Again, unsure how the Yakima, Satsop, Wynoochee, Kalama, Klickitat, Skykomish, Snohomish, Bogachiel and Hoh are rated in various runs, but I've floated and fished these and will do it again. There is moving water, splashy water, boulders, some drops and foamy stuff that seems to meet the definition of white water. I doubt that much if any of it would be considered gnarly. My Maxxon, Outcast, BMI and Scadden crafts have all done well for me in these outings.

    A very good friend used to be a whitewater kayak guide. He's got me jonesing to take my 14' cat down a few places where there are Class III and III+ sections, short sections. Between them are lightly pressured prime fishing areas. I'd like to develop the skill to take my fishing capable and class capable craft there, for the fun of the run, but mostly for the fishing in between.
     
  2. Shapp

    Shapp Active Member

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    Exactly, Ed, take your 14' cat, but please don't anyone buy one of these things thinking they are really anything more than I to II+ cabable craft. Just responding to statements in this thread about running IV to IV+ using scaddens, like phsycos post (maybe the name says it all). Happy boating
     
  3. cleo

    cleo New Member

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    I have run class iv in my scadden rampage but I would not give any sort of endorsement to Dave Scadden boats. Running any real water in this boat is very dangerous as you never know what is going to break next. I have been very disappointed with his product. I paid good money for it and expected much more. I guess that's what you get when you buy something without actually seeing it up close first. The oars are garbage and break under little or no force. Absolutely unacceptable for any moving water use. I have also broke 2 bags, 2 seats and I have been patching this boat like mad in areas where the PVC takes a hard corner when deflated. Not much help from scadden on this. 2 weeks ago I broke an oarlock (at least a sad excuse for one) on a fast river with no real whitewater. I have 2 buddies with scaddens as well and they have the same experience. Leaking valves, broken seats, broken footbars, broken supports. It's really unfortunate that they put out such junk. The boat design is actually pretty good. It's nice to fish out of and is a great way to get down a river (except for the fact that everything breaks). I litterally have nothing left on my boat to break or have problems with. I have been forced to make a bunch of modifications to the boat as Dave Scadden isn't much help and just says, "Wow, we've never had anything like that happen." He told my 2 buddies that too. All I can say, is be very carefull when you look at buying one of these boats. If you want to use it on lakes and flat water, it may work out for you. But then it's way over priced for such limited use. If you plan to use it on moving water (not just technical white water) plan to throw away almost everything that comes with the boat, buy new oars, figure out a way to put real oarlocks on it and plan to keep the contact cement flowing for patches. I am always surprised when I hear of people with good experiences with these boats because our three boats have all been garbage. I hope people don't have the same troubles we have. But its sad because most people I've talke to who have one have had troubles. Be very careful with spending your hard earned money on this product.
     
  4. Riverdrifter

    Riverdrifter Banned or Parked

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    The reason stuff is always breaking is after seeing them in person I would have to say these are definitely a Chinese made product. Dave swears they are made in Idaho but there is no way you would order those cheap Chinese parts to have it built here. The glue all over the seams and plastic end cones kind of gives it away. If it was made here he would never be able to discount that boat so heavily when you call for his special deal. You can't even buy the material for what he sells them for.

    For mumbles " so you are saying if you call Dave and say I have money he will answer the phone, if you need something you can't get hold of him". Doesn't give one much confidence to buy if you have to trick him into answering the phone by saying I have a fist full of cash!

    I remember seeing something on this forum one of the members found proof he was importing but it looks like any traces of that post has been erased?
     
  5. Blue

    Blue Active Member

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    Interesting.
     
  6. shawn k

    shawn k Member

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    Riverdrifter

    scaddens boats are made by incept marine in new zealand. http://www.incept.co.nz/ Incept welds all of their pvc boats

    They even sell them there as scadden boats. The Scadden frames were made by the same builder that makes outcast frames.
    Who knows who makes them now. These boats are a great boat for the average guy that wants a boat to use 3 to 5 times a year that wants a boat that does it all. Could you run blossom bar? Sure if you were a skilled rower and upgraded all the oar locks and oars and such. If you want good whitewater capable raft or Cat you need to drop 2500 to 5000 grand on a boat and even then those boats break.
     
  7. Ed Call

    Ed Call Mumbling Moderator Staff Member

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    Read what I typed. Don't make it into something you want it to say. I like the boats. They have served me well. I have had a few issues with customer service as well. I'm not a Scadden apologist, but his boats have worked well for me. Light, easy to set up, withstood my abuse and that is all I can say. I merely related a story of me sending him a message of what I wanted to buy and what accessories I needed. He quickly called me back. I think his office staff lack the ability to make a decision, so that means you may have to wait for Dave to get back from a show to make the call.

    If you see photos of my boats in use, you'll find that I use cataract or sawyer oars, not the ones Dave makes/buys/sells as his own brand. I have no ideaa where these things are made.

    I once said that if you wanted a quality boat and knew you may have difficulty with customer service but the boat would be still worth having, but one. I did. I have a single seater, two seater and three seater.

    Manipulate those words to read how you wish them to read, or read them as I've offered them as my own personal input. Nothing more.
     
  8. Ed Call

    Ed Call Mumbling Moderator Staff Member

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    And another note, my NRS retro frame fits my Maxxons (of course) but also fits my Scadden Guide 3 person "toons". When I use these tubes I use my NRS frame because I have modified it to my liking and I prefer the NRS frame. There is no perfect boat, no matter who builds it, what they build it out of and where they build it. The question is, will the boat you buy suit you for your needs? Be sure it will, or don't buy it and then fuss about it being a piece of crap. If you can't buy it before seeing it first, consider waiting until you can see it.
     
  9. BDD

    BDD Active Member

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    That is very interesting. I made a call to NFO yesterday to find out more about them and the origins of their products. I was told that only Mr. Scadden knows where they are made, not even any of the employees know.

    I don't really consider NFO our competition as we are no threat to them. I imagine he sells more boat packages at a big outdoor show in a week than we do all year. But I called out of curiosity, because of all the internet smack talk and rumors that have been flying around for years. I would have liked to know the skinny on whether they are US made or not but apparently it is a secret because even their employees don't know.

    I won't talk smack about their stuff as we don't play that game. They have some interesting and unique products. But in a side by side comparison on similar products; well, I really don't think there is a comparison regarding quality, durability, and customer service.
     
  10. Riverdrifter

    Riverdrifter Banned or Parked

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    You pretty much got your answer. If they were made in the USA it wouldn't be a secret!
    And the new rockerraft boats he has are not incept and not heat welded. They are of Chinese origin.

    They definitely are glued on the front of the tubes near the cone, I saw it slopped all over. Although I haven't heard of any seam failures yet. The new glue process is supposed to be way better than that of the old days.
    It is kind of a neat design. Just garbage outfitting.
     
  11. Nick Clayton

    Nick Clayton Active Member

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    I've never used any scadden products so I can't add anything there. I will say that their is no chance I drop that kind of coin on a craft whose origin is kept a secret even from company employees. That seems remarkably shady in my book.
     
  12. longstick

    longstick Member

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    I love my outcast power drifters for lakes and small rivers. We have mod them up with real frames and a second front seat. Sweet boats. I am looking for a frameless boat that is less the 45 lbs so I can hike it into some remote small streams or keep in truck and power boat for some special spots. I have thought about alpacka and water master, I like the layout of saddens for extra gear for overnights.
     
  13. veilside180sx

    veilside180sx Member

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    Shapp...

    You and I finally absolutely agree on something.=)

     
  14. veilside180sx

    veilside180sx Member

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    The only thing I know for a fact, is that the "standard" oars are sourced from China...couldn't tell you about the rest of the boat.

     
  15. whoapiglet

    whoapiglet New Member

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    Just because a boat is made in asia doesn't make is bad, there are several decent chinese boat makes (AIRE's tributary and line, Rocky Mountain Rafts- both welded PVC, and at a lower level the glued PVC maxxon stuff) and many good Korean boats (Hyside, Downriver). Bad boats are made by using the cheapest materials and construction techniques available- glued, thin PVC with low denier (strength of the base fabric). good boats have deniers in the range of 900 to 2500. the thickness of the PVC/Hypalon/Urethane is in the 30-45 oz. per yard range. cheaper boats have deniers in the 300-500 range and thicknesses in the 5- 15oz range.

    For still water all this matters less because you are in deep water, with no current, but in moving water, you have momentum, and a constantly changing landscape, Rocks, and sharp objects don't care if you are in class I water they will still pop your boat. I learned this the hard way with my first boat, a creek company 2 man. ran in to a sharpish underwater rock on a class 2, that caught a seam and tore a tube. the single chamber deflated in seconds, and I lost a lot of gear (my favorite scott g series 884/3) and had to swim the 1/2 a boat to shore. the next season I bought a used 5 chambered 14' self bailing Hyside raft for $600 and built a frame for it, and have been using rafts ever since for my fishing. I have only done class 4 a few times the most I usually do is class 3. But the piece of mind when I have folks/kids/parents/wife on the boat is worth it for me.

    here is my two man fishing rig now- its a hyside 10 footer that weighs 50# with about 45# of frame on it. I bought the raft used for $800 on craigslist, and the frame on closeout for $350 and the oars from a buddy for $200. now I have a easily broken down light weight fishing boat that fits easily in the trunk of my jetta, and I can put together myself, carry easily, and has whitewater level construction and safety. while it does take some looking, I know of two rafts like this available on the used market for $700-900 right now.