Discussion in 'Saltwater' started by Jack Devlin, Jul 9, 2012.
Sorry bad post.
I cant explain how it happened but I will admit I had the same thing happen once on an SC15, also on a large SRC. My guess at the time was the ferocity of the take because he hit the thing like a freight train.
If I'm using the SS or SC-15's in size 6 or 8 I now file the barb off after having too many hooks break while mashing the barbs. Despite the added bother I do like these hooks for smaller tube flies, amphipods & euphasids. All my clousers are tied on 2546's. Do try the glo bug hooks for polychaete worms and stingers.
Think Colton nailed it with the 2546 recommendation. #6 for sea run Clousers; #4 for resident coho clousers and baitfish patterns. Bigger sizes for migratory silvers and such.
I agree with most of the posters thus far, in preferring the SS15 and SC15 over the 2546, Mustad 34007, or TMC 811S.
These ‘stainless’ hooks us a softer steel, that is necessarily thicker (to prevent bending of the softer steel). Colton’s comment that they pinch nicely is accurate (again, they are softer) but I worry about two factors with these hooks for catch and release:
1. Leaving one accidentally in a fish. Stainless hooks will take much longer to dissolve.
2. Diameter is much greater and creates a larger more damaging hole in the mouth.
Neither one of these may prove to be fatal, but it seems better to use the modern thinner/stronger high carbon ‘tinned’ hooks from Gamakatsu.
With any hook, I know several of my customers who also use a Dremel tool to completely grind away the barb. A hand file and some patience (and a fair amount of dexterity) will work as well. I've spoken to several hook manufacturers and they all point out that many customers still want barbed hooks and that removing barbs is much easier than adding them.
The best way I know of to not injure these fish, is too cast and fish poorly...
Again, thanks to all for the input. My original intention of this thread was to find out what hook and sizes are being used. Am not interested as to what hook is the best hook, rather, which hook does the least damage. The purpose of my concern is because I care about the Searun and want to have as little impact on them as possible. Therefore my personal choice of the smallest diameter hook (Gammy SS15, SC15) and small size. I like catch'n cutts, don't get me wrong. I fish for them 2-3 times a week.
Additionally, I've always been curious about how long it takes for hooks to "degrade" (corrode, rust away) in saltwater. Toward that end, I started an "unscientific" test of the effects of saltwater on fish hooks. Today I placed a Gamakatsu SS15, a Daichi 2546, and a Mustad 9671 (kind of a "control" hook) in separate, closed containers and filled them with saltwater collected today from Southworth beach. It will be interesting to see how long it takes. I will replenish the water as necessary. This has probably been done before but I like to do things myself.
Anil was the first to mention the Tiemco 811s and I wonder if anyone uses it. I have some and have tied on them. Nice hook, stainless I believe. The 34007 is quite a hook. Probably has been around longer than all the others. Big barb. My choice for big fish and for table fish.
I would like to see Gamakatsu come out with a barbless hook. Heck, I'll even give them the nomenclature: SRC15BL.
i will agrea with coltron here. i tie thousands of flies on this hook. its a great hook and when smashed leaves no bump.
I use the 811S hooks for salmon flies and have been very happy with them.
I been using the barbless Gamakatsu octopus that I mentioned earlier a lot the past few years. I'm tying a lot more flies with single stingers. By leaving the loop long enough, I can change out the hook if it gets dinged on the backcast or starts to rust to get more life out of my flies.
I'll be interested to see the results of your hook experiment.
okay for the best 3 hooks that i use a lot and love for salt water. 1) Daiichi 2546 sz8-6 2) gamakatsu SC15 sz 6-4 3) gamakatsu SP11 3L3H sz8 all perfect hooks for cutties. the Sp11 is a long shank salt water hook.
The mustad bronze hook started corroding in a couple of hours. The stainless and the tinned hooks show no signs of anything yet. Been in the salt twelve days so far. I suspect they will be around for a long time. I'm going fishing tomorrow and I'll bring a jug of saltwater home to top off the containers.
All this talk about hook corrosion has me wondering; how many times have you snapped a hook off while fighting a sea-run cutthroat? I use 5 or 6# fluoro tippet and have yet to do that.
I can't even remember the last time I got snagged up and had to break the hook off either. Almost every hook I've lost at the beach ends up in a tree or nested in the boudlers behind me somewhere. Besides, when you slap the hook against the rocks and loose it, the hook gets nicked and seems to corrode much faster.
I have never lost a hook in a Cutthroat. Nor have I broken one off on the bottom. BUT, I've left quite a few on the beach! And in the bushes and trees. I'm a lazy backcaster.
I'm going to rain on your experiment a little. Leaving a hook in saltwater is not the same as the reaction made when stuck in a fish's mouth. The corrosion is speeded up dramatically, especially with tinned or bronze hooks. A number of years ago, I left a couple of hooks on my helm station that hadn't been rinsed. An SC-15 was resting on a Tagus SS. The next morning there was already a rust streak burned into the tinned hook and not a mark on the SS. I assume it's a mild electrolysis. So, since the SC-15 is sharper and dissolves quicker, it's my hook of choice in the Sound. I use the #4 almost exclusively, and have landed chum and black mouth to fifteen pounds without a failure.
As for barbless... Like Anil says, if you are really worried about the little "bump" left when de-barbing, you can grind barbs down with a Dremel tool. I do believe you're over thinking the issue though.If you really fear that 1/32" tit is that perilous to the trout, then you shouldn't be targeting them at all. If you want to reduce mortality, use a 6 wt rod, 12# tippet and get the fish in quickly. Use a tube fly and a quick hook disgorger, and you never have to touch them. Leave your cameras at home, the fish in the water, and limit your pressure on any one spot.
Please remember, I categorized my experiment as "unscientific". Just something I always wanted to find out for myself after fifty plus years of fishing and hearing guys say "just cut the hook if you can't get it out, it will dissolve in no time". Can't disagree with any of your comments but will continue grinding the barbs down. Thanks. Last week I watched a guy hook a beautiful cutt, haul it up on the beach, squeeze the crap out of it trying to get the hook out, wait for another member of his group get the camera (fish was dead by this time) and then say he was taking it home. I insisted he return it to the water (too late by then) - didn't want him keeping it. I tried to explain the fishing rules. Ignorance was the problem there. Afterwards, wouldn't you know it, that dead cutthroat was carried by the current and waves back and forth on the bottom right in front of me in plain sight where I was fishing. Sad. The party had left.
I gotta get a life or go fishin' or something.
Decided to look at my "unscientific" hook experiment today. Here are photos of the hooks after thirty days in saltwater.