Seal Pup with a bullet hole / Fishing Report

Discussion in 'Saltwater' started by Nick Andrews, Aug 28, 2005.

  1. gearhead

    gearhead Active Member

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    Nick, please don't put words in my mouth, i see that your are traumatized/pissed by the demize of this seal. i think we all are aware of the impact that we humans have on fish and seal populations, so i do not need a lesson. please re-read my remarks. the fact is: That seals are an "added" impact to Hood Canal and Puget sound fish,(not just salmon) that was not present not so many years ago. I don't know how many seals we have now in our state, but, how many salmonids and bottom fish do say 5,000 seals eat each day, maybe a couple dozen, i'm not really sure, and multiply that by 365. if that is not an impact i don't know what is. there used to be a steelhead run in the low thousands in the cedar river when i was growing up, and i, as well as many people on this site, watched just three sea lions destroy that entire run, in less than 8 years.The feds realized the Run was in crisis and authorized the shooting of the three seals,but the City of Seattle would not allow the Feds to shoot them. instead they were simply captured, dropped in California, only to return with a friend or two each year. i think it was in 1990, when on leave from the Army, i watched the news one evening and they said that something less than 20 steelhead went thru the locks that winter. from thousands to less than 20, all because people wanted to debate what to do and point fingers at eachother instead of doing something. maybe if seals weren't so cute, the decision would be easier. we control other animal populations, with great success, to keep them from starving or to lesson predation. why is a seal any different. Let me make it clear i do not advocate people blasting and stacking seals. it's a criminal act, and should be punished. Let the Feds do it. (yes i know.... i'm ignorant)
     
  2. Nick Andrews

    Nick Andrews New Member

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    Gearhead, it is not that I am "traumatized/pissed by the demize of this seal." I am just upset in general in the way we humans treat the environment in which we depend on to survive. Now I am not "putting words in your mouth," I am just trying to show you the big picture. It is your point of view that shifts blame onto animals such as seals that distracts from the real problems that we need to address such as dams, over fishing, timber harvesting practices, emissions, and run off from farm lands...just to name a few. Now the fact that you put more weight into the population of seals in Puget Sound and Hood canal, then these others issues is just a huge distraction. We need to stop escaping the responsibility by way of blame animals that have been here apart of this ecosystem long before the white man showed his ugly face in the Northwest. You mentioned the Cedar River as an example to highlight your point of the problem presented by allowing the seals to feed themselves. In 1999 American River’s name the Cedar River sixth most endangered river in the country.

    “6. Cedar River (Washington) Sprawl, Water Withdrawals If allowed to thrive, the Puget Sound Basin's Cedar River could produce one of the largest runs of salmon and steelhead in the state of Washington. The Cedar has not been allowed to fulfill its potential, however, as unchecked development from Seattle - one of the nation's ten most sprawling cities, according to the Sierra Club - has caused Cedar River runs to decline dramatically. Victims of the urban crush, Puget Sound chinook salmon are now listed under the federal Endangered Species Act.
    Unfortunately, Seattle's strategy for protecting what remains of the Cedar's salmon runs - implementing a 50-year Habitat Conservation Plan (HCP) - may have the opposite effect. If accepted by the federal government, the HCP will allow more water to be taken from the river, further degrading salmon habitat and fueling even more urban sprawl.
    http://www.americanrivers.org/site/PageServer?pagename=AMR_content_e53a
    Since this report a lot has changed on the Cedar River over the past six years and most of it had to do with cleaning up the habitat around steam and change practices as to how water levels are maintained. Now I would just like to respond directly to one of your statements. And no I don’t think that you are so much ignorant, just misinformed.

    "having a salmon removed from your hook by a seal is a very common problem now. i have now heard stories that seals are all the way up to bonneville thrashing fish, and taking them from anglers is a common occurance there too. this morning i saw a seal at bonneville thrashing a salmon at the deadline on a TV show."

    I think that you might want to do some research other than what you see on the news. What the news is showing you a very narrow view into again a much larger problem. There is a wealth of information done by many different organizations out there. If I were you I would do a little more searching and I think that you may find a lot of informative articles, research papers, and environmental studies concerning the depleting of wild fish stocks.
     
  3. gearhead

    gearhead Active Member

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    Oh man.... Your killin' me. Guess we are gonna have to agree to disagree. I will say it again. I AM NOT BLAMING THE SEALS. gosh... man oh man.
    You mention Dams, over fishing, Timber, Emmissions, Run off. Well i know that. Heck we all know that. But Seals are a contributor as well. and thats what YOU do not want to talk about. Everything else has already, and is being talked about.
    You speak of the Cedar Rivers 1999 listing, well what a coincidence, being that i mentioned a run of less than 20 Steelhead that year. Number one reason, was, and in the case of the Cedar, and Only the Cedar... Seals! Just 3 of them. I think the locks were there maybe 50 or so years prior to this first sea lion arriving. You mention that the Cedar should be able to produce one of the largest runs of salmon, if it could only be allowed to reach its full potential, well guess what, it is, do you call 300,000 sockey small.
    You mention that i should be careful and wary of what i see on the news. well it was not on the news.Personally i think everybody in that business is full of Bull$&!T. It was a fishing show. Buddy, i live it, i see it, i have personally watched the population grow. unless you are out there in the Salt and have been for the last 24 years, you have no way of understanding what it is i have been saying. And yes, having a seal take your fish from you is a very very common problem. last year at the mouth of the cowlitz it was common, it has happened to me twice. i used to carry a bucket of rocks to keep them at bay when playing a fish, 'till i was told it was a felony. ipersonaly see Seals taking fish from lines about every time i go out in the salt during the seasons. i fished Biz point once, about 5 years ago, just once. I watched nine salmon hooked that morning, all nine were lost to aggressive harbor seals. i caught the only fish that day. The Seal population is a problem and it should not be ignored. You can blame the dams, you can blame ugly white guys like myself, but if you fail to address this problem as well, then you are ignorant, and you are not well informed. you can't attain knowledge on this subject by just reading articles written by, in some cases individuals with their own agenda, or groups such as, i hate Bush, and he is the cause of it all, Sierra club and their authors with their personal agendas.
     
  4. Old Man

    Old Man Just an Old Man

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    Hey,chill out. You are talking about a problem that everybody knows about and can't do anything about it. Somethings you just can't control and the seal problem is one of them. Ever since they outlawed killing them for coats the population has boomed.

    And the same can be said for all of the animals of this planet. The bears and cougars,you can't bait them any more so their population is growing. Do you want to blame them if they start eating people. We build where they live.

    So I guess you can say all of the problems of the wildlife world can be blamed on MAN.

    So just chill out. Go fishing or something. Or if all of this bothers you just QUIT and go play golf or something. I think that we are tired of hearing about this problem.At least I am.

    Jim
     
  5. Porter

    Porter Active Member

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    Guess....no I think it is fact.
     
  6. gearhead

    gearhead Active Member

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    I apologize for my rant. i'm done.