Seiners

Upton O

Blind hog fisherman
#61
Thank you Chris, I'm afraid that I'm growing into a serious skeptic but I've just seen too much "inaccuracy" when it comes to government data and related reporting. Looking back to this morning when I think I posted it, I was probably thinking out loud and the question is more rhetorical. Maybe I should change my name to Mr. Cynical. Anyway, what we have is what we have.
 
#62
Thank you Chris, I'm afraid that I'm growing into a serious skeptic but I've just seen too much "inaccuracy" when it comes to government data and related reporting. Looking back to this morning when I think I posted it, I was probably thinking out loud and the question is more rhetorical. Maybe I should change my name to Mr. Cynical. Anyway, what we have is what we have.
No problem Upton O, a litle skepticism is a healthy thing, we should look at everything the gov. does with a critical eye. Alot of guys don't have much experience with the industry, so I just try to share what I know. Its not that I'm advocating for more commercial fishing,in fact I think some forms will(and should), go by the way side. I spent a large part of my life doing it and I feel a need to speak up sometimes.
 
#63
Three days ago we had schools of chum jumping everywhere between Bainbridge and Manchester. Two days ago the seiners showed up. Yesterday there wasn't a salmon to be seen. It makes me sick to my stomach.
 

dryflylarry

"Chasing Riseforms"
#65
A bit of clarification on the tribal rules I stated earlier in this thread: The "set net" mesh size (5" minimum) is measured diagonally. In other words, from corner to corner "stretched". Therefore, a 2-1/2" square mesh is legal for a "set net". I learned this only recently. My bad. Anyhow, that is still a pretty dang small mesh if you ask me. I also learned that the "commercial" fisherman (non-tribal) get about 16 days a year on the Hood Canal. I don't no for certain if that's true, but, unlike the tribes, they have the HUGE deep nets that do a fantastic rape job of the Canal. Ok, I'm done bitching now.
 

JayB

Active Member
#66
Salmon Freshwater Estimates 2010 Draft 1

Salmon Marine Estimhttp 2010 Draft 1

http://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/01217/wdfw01217.pdf

OK, here are the numbers I got from WDFW. The top link is the fresh water estimate for Puget Sound, the second is marine estimates for PS areas 5-13. I included are 5 because the fresh water numbers included rivers in the straits. I also excluded numbers from 2011. the third link is for commercial fisheries in Puget Sound areas 5-13 both tribal and all citizen. These are the numbers I came up with:

Sport Catch fresh and marine: Chinook( including 813 jacks) 49,354 , Coho(including 519 jacks) 42,129 , Pinks 3463 (even year) ,Sockeye 3237, chum 11,406

All Citizen commercial: Chinook 7,600, Coho 16,800 , Chum 410,200

Tribal commercial: Chinook 11,600, Coho 118,300 , Chum 499,949

There are no numbers on commercial sockeye catches, I assume because there is no fishery on sockeye bound for washington rivers ,and they are not part of the departments responsibility ( they fall under the International Pacific Salmon Commission).

Interesting numbers on the all citizen Chinook and Coho.

I just realized my first two links didn't work, I'll try to fix that. If you would like I can e-mail them to you in the mean time, right now I'm going to bed
Thanks for doing all of the legwork necessary to get those stats.

Before I say "Now we know what happened to the chum runs" it would be interesting to know what the total escapement is for the various salmon.

I wish there was a way to pay tribal and commercial fishermen *not* to fish. I'd gladly chip in $100 per year towards a fund that would pay them to leave $100 worth of fish in the water. It'd never fly politically, but it seems like in theory you could match the economic value of the catch in smaller terminal fisheries with ESA listed fish and make at least a small dent in the pressure.

People would probably then just set their nets immediately outside the zone that you've paid them not to fish in and totally negate any benefit of the offsets *and* pocket the money the harvest, but as long as we're allowed to indulge in a bit of daydreaming...
 
#67
As far as chums go their commercial value is for their roe(it is viewed as the best in Japan), and the price depends alot on numbers in Alaska and Japan. This year the price is good so there is a lot of effort. I have seen forecast estimates for chum per river, but have not seen escapement #s. I will do some research and see what I can find.

As for paying people to not fish, the state has had several license by back programs which have reduced the number of fishermen, but I believe market forces have done more to lower those numbers. You will never buy off treaty rights.
 

ak_powder_monkey

Proud to Be Alaskan
#68
Maybe not. ..if you don't have a problem with dwindling wild salmon populations being harvested en masse for commercial gain. Assuming an equal harvest, sportfishing provides more value and a higher quality of life for many more individuals than commercial fishing does. Sport fisheries can function, and even grow, without increasing harvest. My opinion is that wild fish, particularly wild fish so close to so many people, are far too valuable to be netted at wholesale prices. If I am wrong about that I wish someone would explain how, so I can stop being upset by what is going on out there.
Its pretty clear, half the harvestable surplus goes to the tribes. So while there's sport fishing there will be tribal fishing period. Stop sport fishing and you stop the netting, until then quit complaining.
 

Griswald

a.k.a. Griswald
#69
Greedy net fisher people who will be lucky to break even on the catch are all over the south west part of colvos tonight. 8 boats between Olalla and Gig Harbor...
 

dryflylarry

"Chasing Riseforms"
#72
Actually, there are Killer Whales right now, according to the news, chomping down on those chum salmon lurking near Vashon. I love it!
 

Ringlee

Doesn't care how you fish Moderator
#74
This thread is full of so much mis-information. Thank you Curt for providing some factual data in your previous posts to alleviate the spread of false data and assumptions.

The current price for Chum is $1.30 per pound. That is a VERY good price for Chum.


Here is the link to the weekly Commercial Test Fishery at Apple Tree Cove for in season management for both Treaty and Non Treaty Commercial fishermen.

http://blogs.nwifc.org/test-fishery/
 

Go Fish

Language, its a virus
#75
There is so much mis-info because you have
to dig to get any rules and regs on the tribal
fishing laws. Add in lax enforcement, if any, and
you will have an upset group of people that want
to preserve, instead of make a buck, and wonder why
every year there are less fish.....

No solution when dealing with a group that can
do as it pleases.

David