Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Jason Rolfe, Oct 24, 2008.
bill clinton got bush elected by kneejerk reaction
which bush is now returning the favor for obama
"Bush did well in Iraq"
Glad to hear it's all good now.
Republican party has completely lost its' way. Partly to blame is the last 8 years of Bush and Karl Rove "masterminding" the appeal to the hard right. On items such as the economy...democrats are polling higher than Republicans...are you kidding me? On issues of defense...Obama is polling higher than McCain...are you kidding me???
As a registered republican in an ultra liberal state I live with this crap hourly...forget about daily. The republican party has abadoned its' true base to appeal to folks on the hard right. McCain has run a campaign that is embarrassing. Changing message, not attacking Obama in critical issues...hoping beyond all hope that the Bill Ayers, Joe the Plumber, Redistributor...we don't know who Obama is strategy to win the election.
Let's face it. The Republican Party did not even run a republican in the election.
The only ones who were even in the primaries were Ron Paul and Mike Huckabee. And Ron Paul wouldn't even get mention in the media when he placed 2nd or 3rd in a primary. they would pretend he didn't exist. too bad, he was the best candidate we will probably ever see
Since this freight train is well on its way to 100 posts worth of whining, stale jokes and girl-fighting (pardon me ladies); lets unwad our Hanes-for-Hers and hear some predictions.
Mine: First off, we could elect a pair of pliers to office and they'd still end up a hero in 4 years. The present state of our economy, etc. is 95% certain to look better, much better, by end of next term. Whoever we put in that chair will reap the benefit of that, regardless of qualifications and the job they do as Prez. When Obama takes office, and I'd love to be wrong about that, it won't be whether an attempt is made, but when and how many. So far, one that I know of...couple of crackpots but others will follow and likely with brains and a bit more organization. Let's not take a wrong turn here...none of us wants to see that happen...hopefully none of us. Regardless of resume' or work performed, Obama goes out an unfortunate hero/legend to be remembered on U.S. currency and street signs. Biden steps in and inherits an 8 year term...remember that pair of pliers?...not a reflection on Biden, just the right place at the right time.
My logic: Obama surviving the attempts and making 8 would have more of a potpourri smell, but U.S. history has some undeniable quirks about it. The numbers work just like baseball, and the sad truth is we're due for a hit.
Fox News is still reporting "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED"...
The intelligent discussion in this thread has been fun to read, lets keep it that way, no personal attacks please.
I can't believe I read the whole thing.
Lots of good input.
Something I don't understand is if a bunch of fly fishers can figure things out what happened to our (We the people) goverment.
509 &Alex- I'll respectfully disagree that we've done well with Iraq. I'll also point out that we never went there on good will, but on the false pretense of finding WMD's. I'm not sure why we thought/think a democracy in that region would work anyhow, they've never know one. (I'm basing my observation from texts like D. Fromkins a Peace to End All Peace http://www.powells.com/biblio/17-0805068848-0 etc.)
In regards to African aid, again I'm not sure of your source of info or your definition of 'well' but there is much more we could do, or atleast do differently. I've been able to see economist Jeffrey Sachs talk a few times ( another book plug here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_End_of_Poverty) and can say that we'd be better off spending our money investing in sustainable agriculture, as well as other things, instead of just dropping pallets of dry goods in the desert regions.
Alex- I was thinking a bit more last night about your comments on civility in society, and though I agree people should be more respectful, it's an unreasonable expectation as we're not that society any longer. We're all about the drive-over-the-top-of-you, flip ya off, smart ass culture now. Look at the old film clips of W. Buckley ( one of my other posts) he's a conservative, and can, for the most part, get his point across without loosing self control. Compare that to todays politicians and media celebrities, essentially our modern examples of how to act (maybe not for you and I but for many of the sheep) . Does GWB, Cheney, Limbaugh, or O'Riley congure up any idea of a thoughtful respectful person?
FF: My pick is Obama will win Washington state easliy, and that Gregoire will probably eek out another win.
It is with great regret, as a history major, to agree with Ford Fenders. I believe that whomever is elected our country will be in a better place in time. That being said I fear that if history is made that there could be some crackpot that dedicates their existence to altering history by their own hand. On the ticket of change Obama and Biden, how can Biden be anything of change after 35 years in office. If any of those radical crackpots have their way we will see a historic election turn into a historical tragic act that puts Biden in charge. If Obama wins, I personally will pray that our nation is strong enough to stand strong for our Commander in Chief and keep him safe and healthy so that he can be effecive. If McCain wins I do not fear the same outcome, even though I don't have much faith in Palin. History repeats itself and genearlly that repetition is not a good thing.
I just voted. That is for real, not on WFF. I am proud to vote for the candidate that I did. I am confident that he has all the nessesary talents, education, demeanor and intellectual curiosity. We certainly haven't had that in a President in a while.
Pro- I-1000 as well.
what i'm more concerned with is not necessarily obama or mccain on their own, but the CFR (Council on Foreign Relations). i won't go into detail on here, but you can research that if you feel inclined to. just do a search on Obama and the CFR via google or what have you
A little Intellectual Honesty would go a long way though.
My Dad was a strong Union Member and lifelong Democrat. Until he retired. He hasn't voted for a Democrat sense.
It all depends on who butters your bread.
So what's the issue? Please don't spout off the same old conspiracy theories. Fact: the CFR is a think tank. Fact: because it's a think tank ALL ideas are on the table (that is a good thing for a think tank). Fact: sometimes some of the more extreme ideas get leaked (do you honestly think we would ever, as americans, as soverign nations, stand for a one world government or a single government in north america, etc....c'mon, we can even elect a president in this country without the courts getting involved anymore. Do you think this new government will come about via force...seriously?).
It is a non-partisan orginization that bats around ideas some of which I'm sure are extreme (to the left, right, rightcenter, leftcenter, etc.) That is what a think tank should do, it doesn't mean those ideas would ever be put into action. You know how many former government officials (pretty much every president, secratary of state , etc.,.....ever are members or are linked to the cfr (including Obama and McCain).
The world is changing-culture, government, and nations are not static entities. You have to think ahead of the curve and out of the box (sorry for the cliches...) in order to be prepared for what lies ahead. Think tanks do this type of work so it is only natural that some crazy sounding sh*t has come out of there.