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Shippping and Handling

NFR 
3K views 46 replies 34 participants last post by  Steelheader69 
#1 ·
I am wondering what to do here and if anyone else has had this happen. I recently sold a fly rod and shipped it out of state through FedEx . According to the tracking # it says that it has been delivered to the buyer's doorstep but he claims it never arrived. The buyer checked with the local FedEx driver who says he did indeed deliver to his doorstep which means that is was most likely stolen from buyer's property. Now there is the question of what to do. FedEx is obviously not taking responsibility and even if the package had been insured (which is wasn't) that only works if it never got delivered. I recently logged into Paypal and found a claim against me and all money paid has been refunded to the buyer. I believe him that he doesn't have the fly rod but the responsibility in this whole transaction I feel is far our of my hands and I have done everything I was supposed to. So now I'm out a fly rod, the money for it and the $20 to ship. Not sure what to do here but it seems like all protection is provided to the buyer while the seller gets none.
 
#3 ·
one of the local TV channels recently showed a female thief caught on a home security camera taking recently delivered packages from someones front porch, she was brazen enough to park in their driveway......they could possibly be following the Fed Ex or UPS van as it makes it's deliveries....
 
#4 ·
He should pay you for the rod. That's BS! You shipped it, it was delivered. Life isn't always fair.

I don't like putting peoples names on here when this stuff happens but sure wouldn't blame you if you did in this case. You should get paid. Not sure what else you can do, though.
 
#21 ·
He should pay you for the rod. That's BS! You shipped it, it was delivered. Life isn't always fair.

I don't like putting peoples names on here when this stuff happens but sure wouldn't blame you if you did in this case. You should get paid. Not sure what else you can do, though.
As harsh as this may seem, it's true. If FedEx can confirm that they delivered it, it's no different than if someone stole their kids bike off their front lawn. It's not your responsibility. It sucks, yes, but the burden shouldn't fall on you.

On another note, we use PayPal all the time for our business. It's a hard lesson to learn, but PayPal almost always sides with the customer.

I really, really hope that something works out for you... :(
 
#5 ·
It's one of those deals that forethought always plays out, I purchased a new fly tying vise from an online shop and it never arrived, the post office sent confirmation to the shop and myself that the package had indeed been delivered but unfortunately I never did receive it. Probably was picked up of off the doorstep from someone else. Now I always request signature required when sending and purchasing items.

Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk 4
 
#6 ·
That is kind of crappy for the guy to take no responsibility for the loss. It appears you were both victims of a thief. Would the guy be willing to split the difference? That would seem fair to me....

Another thought - Was it a "confirmed" address in the Paypal system? My understanding is that if that is the case Paypal should provide Seller protection too. I'm not sure how it works, but it might be worth investigating.

On a similar note, as mentioned above, I have read news reports that thieve following UPS & FedEx trucks is becoming a common technique. I always have stuff sent to my office where someone can sign for it. No help here, but maybe in the future.
 
#9 ·
Another thought - Was it a "confirmed" address in the Paypal system? My understanding is that if that is the case Paypal should provide Seller protection too. I'm not sure how it works, but it might be worth investigating.
yes, I believe they do. several years ago, I had something similar happen. Only I was the buyer & the package was insured. The fly rod was "delivered" but never showed up (UPS 'found' the box and it was empty). I got my money back, as did the seller (minus shipping costs)...I'm not sure if it was because of the insurance or the confirmed address with PayPal. Either way, even on the smallest things, I ALWAYS insure...just for a little extra protection.
 
#8 ·
To stop all of this, don't send fly equipment through the Mail, UPS, or Fed Ex. I watch when my mail comes and my yard is fenced and patrolled by biting dogs. Those guys always come to my front porch and drop shit off. No packages get left in the mail box.
 
#10 ·
I now have all of the goods I purchase shipped to my office.
That way I can guarantee someone is there to receive them and it isn't sitting on my front porch all day.

When I sell something I now always ask for a signature. i also try to work with the buyer to try and find ship to address that will insure safe delivery. Not always an easy task.
SF
 
#11 ·
Paul, that sucks. I've only completed one transaction of rods & reels via this board, and the box intended for me in trade somehow got sent to S. California with a similar zip code, so I know how you feel - that pit in your gut that you got duped. Hope it works out in your favor too.

That being said, if I owned a fly shop, I'd offer a rod shipping/receiving service. Here's an idea, after the payments had been secured:

  1. Seller takes item for sale to fly shop, where they record receipt, condition, pack, and ship to seller via trackable service (UPS, FedEx, etc).
  2. Fly shop charges shipping + a small handling fee or offers % off coupon to spend in store same day
  3. Buyer identifies a fly shop in their area who will receive the package and note condition, etc.
  4. Upon pickup, Buyer pays the fly shop a small fee for the service, or the shop offers a % off coupon to spend in the store same day to help outfit the new gear (line, flies, etc.)
This makes the fly shop a value added link in the chain, wherein both the buyer and seller are working with people they know and trust, and the valuables get delivered to a known entity. And it drives business to the fly shops.
Works for the gun industry.
Derek
 
#13 ·
Paul, that sucks. I've only completed one transaction of rods & reels via this board, and the box intended for me in trade somehow got sent to S. California with a similar zip code, so I know how you feel - that pit in your gut that you got duped. Hope it works out in your favor too.

That being said, if I owned a fly shop, I'd offer a rod shipping/receiving service. Here's an idea, after the payments had been secured:

  1. Seller takes item for sale to fly shop, where they record receipt, condition, pack, and ship to seller via trackable service (UPS, FedEx, etc).
  2. Fly shop charges shipping + a small handling fee or offers % off coupon to spend in store same day
  3. Buyer identifies a fly shop in their area who will receive the package and note condition, etc.
  4. Upon pickup, Buyer pays the fly shop a small fee for the service, or the shop offers a % off coupon to spend in the store same day to help outfit the new gear (line, flies, etc.)
This makes the fly shop a value added link in the chain, wherein both the buyer and seller are working with people they know and trust, and the valuables get delivered to a known entity. And it drives business to the fly shops.

Works for the gun industry.
Derek
Essentially becoming a "FFL" (federal firearm lic.) for fly rods.
 
#20 ·
Assuming they do indeed arrive at their intended destination - I imagine that these drones might provide fine sport for those of a mischievous nature, armed with pellet guns and such.
 
#15 ·
Sorry Paul, that sucks. My street (very close to Aurora) has had numerous parcel thefts in the last few months. As much as it sucks, you can't blame the shipping entity, unless they didn't follow instructions. IMO, not your fault.

I had a similar idea (kind of) to Derek's, although not really related to buying/selling. I'm not sure how the science of this would actually work, but it would be cool if fly shops offered a "gear sanitation" service for waders, boots, etc. for fishermen visiting from another area. Basically, they'd use UV lights/heat/hungry geckos/whatever to kill any invasive species, then "certify" the gear as appropriate to use in local waters. Visiting fisherman gets to use their own gear, local fisheries get piece of mind and the ability to enforce the rules (maybe a in conjunction with the fishing license) and the fly shop gets some out of town business. Like I said, I'm about 180 credits short of a fisheries science degree, so this may not even be possible. But I'd use it.
 
#16 ·
I may be on the wrong track, but if the buyer agrees to the sale and does not request for
insurance, then they better be home when it arrives. I know that I watch tracking info
throughout the delivery period. Maybe it would be best to state "base shipping/no
insurance or premium shipping w/insurance, no refunds if lost in the mail." Then it is
up to the buyer to pay up or shut up. Not sure is this is compliant with Paypal though.
Bummer Paul, I feel your pain.
 
#22 ·
I may be on the wrong track, but if the buyer agrees to the sale and does not request for
insurance, then they better be home when it arrives. I know that I watch tracking info
throughout the delivery period. Maybe it would be best to state "base shipping/no
insurance or premium shipping w/insurance, no refunds if lost in the mail." Then it is
up to the buyer to pay up or shut up. Not sure is this is compliant with Paypal though.
Bummer Paul, I feel your pain.
I know per Ebay the seller is responsible for the item until it is delivered. If it is delivered damaged it is the sellers responsibility to get it figured out.

I would assume through Paypal since it was shown as delivered the sellers end of the bargain was upheld. Kind of crappy of them to refund the guy.
 
#19 ·
Just curious would the home owners insurance possibly pay for it? I mean they cover theft, and if the fedex driver confirms the delivery it was technically stolen from the Home.

The buyer seems to have all the cards but maybe he/she is a decent guy/gal who just doesn't want to pay for something he/she didn't get; it would be worth asking.
 
#23 ·
I just asked my wife (who does the shipping for us), that if you can prove that it was delivered, PayPal will back you up.

She also mentioned, to make sure that the dispute is finalized. You can still dispute it. PayPal does this "automatically" (freezes monies, or refunds) until it is finalized.

Although, shy of a signature, as Porter mentioned, it may be tough. PayPal's 'Seller Protection' states that orders of over $250 must have a signature, in order to back you up. However, get on FedEx to help you out. If you are persistent, things may work out for you.

We live in a day and age, where companies rely on folks to just "give in", and accept "That's just how it is." You can, and should, get a little grumpy (ha ha), and you may just find a multi-million dollar company "giving in" to your demands for help.

Hey, what have you got to lose. The worst they can tell you is no.
 
#26 ·
Unless it is a very expensive rod the value would be less than the homeowners deductible, so probably not much help.

It is a tough one on both ends. Many people do not accept paypal because of things like this. As stated with paypal the seller is guilty until proven innocent, not always fair but the way it is.

I have heard of people ordering stuff and saying that they never got it and file for a refund. Is the guy somebody that has been on the board with a history of reports for a while?

As a buyer I would not be willing to take on any financial hit. I was not able to inspect or hold the rod. How would I know what was in the box, was the rod as described?

Poppy at the Red Shed used to send rods/reels/lines to people to try with just an address. If they liked it they kept it and paid for them, if not they sent it back. He surprisingly never had a problem for several years, but he ate a couple of rods. He also does not accept paypal, so guessing he had a similar issue.

I will always ship with insurance and or signature, leaning more towards signature for this specific reason. I have bought and sold more gear than I care to admit via mail. Luckily I have not gotten burned badly yet. I did have a rod go to about three wrong post offices all over the country before it ended up in getting to the buyer. Canada is a whole different ball game. You do not get the same tracking as you do here, so hard to follow or document. I have a conversation before I ship that I will ship the product as described and packed well. But once it leaves my hands it is totally their responsibility, if they do not agree I will not ship. Everything has gotten to it's destination, but a few have taken a looooooooooong time.
 
#29 ·
I do not sell, but most everything I buy comes via the regular mail. Have not been burn yet, but if I ever
ship a rod, I would ask for additional shipping cost for insurance and signature. I'm curious, does this
cost one-third more for most carriers? I believed Paul got hosed. He should not have to be beat on
this deal. Still feeling the pain.
 
#30 ·
I smell something shady and I think given your obligation was met by having the fly rod delivered to his door............. he's now responsible. If he has any class........he should be following up soon on at least a proposal to split the cost (which is still shitty on his part). My two cents. If you don't hear from him soon.........he's probably on a holiday vacation fishing with your rod. Sorry, Paul.
 
#31 ·
Thanks guys for your answers and perspective. We've gone back and forth a bit and have come to the conclusion that PayPal will have to decide. I'm willing to take a partial hit and next time I will insure which makes it tougher for the buyer but that way it's for sure. Thanks Derek for the offer, I have a couple others at my disposal. Luke, I sold a Z-Axis 486-4 for $300 which I thought was a good deal but free is an even better deal.
 
#32 ·
Thanks guys for your answers and perspective. We've gone back and forth a bit and have come to the conclusion that PayPal will have to decide. I'm willing to take a partial hit and next time I will insure which makes it tougher for the buyer but that way it's for sure. Thanks Derek for the offer, I have a couple others at my disposal. Luke, I sold a Z-Axis 486-4 for $300 which I thought was a good deal but free is an even better deal.
#@$%!!!

Watch Craigs list, and Ebay for your missing rod...... I'm NOT kidding.
 
#33 ·
"Tis the Season when thieves prowl the suburbs for packages left on doorsteps. A recent tv news feature showed a parasite dashing into a front yard, grabbing the package and scuttling back to his idling vehicle in a few seconds.
 
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