short rod myth

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by Leroy Laviolet, May 15, 2010.

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  1. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

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    Well, we could take this to the next level and give out word definitions and usages. What you think Ed? Or would the polite thing to say be "Screw You!"?
     
  2. Panhandle

    Panhandle Active Member

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    Holy Hannah, fine.

    I own different lengths and weights of rods and use them accordingly for all the different rivers I fish. Before I purchase the rod I look at the size of fish, the size of the river, what lines I will primarily be using, and even if the river is windy or not. In fact, I own two or three rods for certain rivers that have winters and summers and conditions that change.

    So here I am on the Grand Ronde: I have a 15 ft 8 wt and 12 ft 7 wt. Why don't I use the 14/8? Because it is over- kill. The GR is a small river with small Steelhead (for the most part). A 15 foot rod would have me launching casts over fish and more or less fishing too aggressively on a delicate river. I catch a 6 lb A run and feel little of the fight. I walk away feeling like I man handled the river rather than balancing my equipment with its personality. I think that is what we're all trying to achieve.

    So now I'm on the Clearwater, same rods. I use the 12 footer on a broad run where the fish are holding 80 ft out and I need to get the line under control quick to get the presentation right. The 12 footer is going to do it, but I'm going to work harder than I need to. The 15 footer allows me to get to those fish easier and have more line control quicker. The 15 footer would be the smarter tool for the job.
     
  3. Ed Call

    Ed Call Mumbling Moderator Staff Member

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    Pan, remember, switch rods on smaller rivers beat the winds and deliver streamer madness with ease.
     
  4. Salmo_g

    Salmo_g Active Member

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    Shorter Spey rods have become popular IMO because most steelheaders know that on most, but not all, rivers, fishing effectively doesn't mean casting any farther than they would cast with a single hand rod, and that 15 to 20-plus pound steelhead are incredibly rare. Consequently we can fish for steelhead very effectively with lighter and shorter Spey rods and be more comfortable while doing so. The rivers like the Clearwater and Thompson, where long casts, long line control, and larger average fish size are exceptions to the conditions most steelheaders fish most of the time. It only makes sense that anglers will gravitate to gear that is well suited to the conditions they fish the most.

    I have two handed rods from 11' 6" to 16 feet. Haven't fished the 16' rod in 18 years. It's a thunderstick and really not any fun, and I can be equally if not more effective with other rods I own. I don't use my 9140 for steelhead anymore simply because it's overkill for steelhead under 15 pounds, and most of the steelhead I catch are less than 15 pounds. I will take it to the Kennektok for king salmon next month so I can throw larger flies more comfortably and because the kings are larger average size. I would never take it to the Grand Ronde though, for the relatively short casts and 5 and 6 pound steelhead.

    It ain't rocket science Leroy.

    Sg
     
  5. younggun

    younggun New Member

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    "It aint rocket science" AHMEN TO THAT!!!
     
  6. ralfish

    ralfish Active Member

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    Old injuries are comiing back to hunt me, big time. So I have gone to the short rod. 12-'6. It fishes quiet well to 120'. But most of my fishing is within 80'. Will huck bellies to 65' just fine, but really shines with scandis and short bellies ( with tips). Not a fan of skagits, but thats just me. Wind doesnt affect short and mid bellies as bad the long belly, i can fish a lot of water long belly guys cant. Its just easier on my body. Maybe one day I'll find a long rod that doesnt trash me , but for now the body tolerates the short rod.

    Why short rods are so popular? Its way easier learning to cast a short rod with a skagit line than a long rod with a long belly line. Plain and simple
     
  7. SPEYBUM

    SPEYBUM Member

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    The Backcast room when using any Fly rod and a speycast can modified by how you perform the cast that you have chosen to make.

    I started fishing long rods and longer lines with these if you had to find a way to make them work.
    There are some streams where a 13 ft would be a long rod and the same rules would have to applies as if you were working a long rod big river with limited back cast room.

    Adjusting your talet to make a restricted back cast maneuver no matter how long the rod or how long the line.
    The THCI test wants you to make a restricted backcast ( less that 6 ft) withe the same rod and line that you must make a 80 ft cast with out shooting.
    It is a matter of understanding how to get what you need out of what you have.

    Long before the Skagit line and Skagit Clan came into being.
    Casting with little back cast room were being made by many Flyfishers and they did not think any thing about it.
    The late Mike Maxwell one of the original Speyfathers , in his Video on the Art and Science of Spey casting
    Is shown making a 80 ft cast from the Coal Seam on the Bulkley River In BC.
    These speycasts were made with a very restricted back cast.

    Go out and put your self into harms way and see how little back cast room you need.

    The longer the rod the more we have to start using out bodies with what I call body English to help us make the 400 or so casts that you make 8 hrs of fishing ( not data but got it off the web).
    Body transfer will cut the fatigue in all Fly Casting including single hand I teach it to all my students in one way or another.
    The two handed rod empowers those who have less upper body strength just as the two handed serve did for tennis.



    Far to many people (my self included) look for the Magic Bullet that magical mystical tool to save the world of Speyfishing.
    I think there is one but you can not buy you have to build he understanding of what you need to do.

    So pick your weapon and enjoy: for what you think deep down inside is all that counts.

    :thumb:
     
  8. Brian Thomas

    Brian Thomas Active Member

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    Shorter rods can be the better tool for landing fish on rivers like the Thompson . Chasing fish on the T is next to impossible on all but one of the runs I like to fish . And some of the water I fish has you wading in 3 feet of water 4 feet off the bank , and beaching fish is a challenge . Not that I get many of them , but I do like to touch each fish I hook if I can . Shorter rods make it a bit easier . The river is best fished with a long rod though .
     
  9. floatinghat

    floatinghat Member

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    Because you don’t have one, you only have the 15 and 12.

    Only overkill from your perspective, actually a true 15ft 8wt would have a slower taper and bend deeper into the blank giving you a greater sensation than a 12ft 7wt. Learning to fish angles and presentation is completely different than casting. I have a Sage 8150 that is a wonderful rod with a 6lb Deschutes or GR fish and I don’t get the feeling you describe.

    Not necessarily true, 80ft out doesn’t always mean 80ft 90deg. out from the bank. It means 80ft cast to get your desired presentation. You are fishing CFT down and across fishing small CW type flies. The rock is 40ft off the shore you could easily present that fly on the 12fter. I will agree that the 15ft rod would be a better choice.

    The distinction between casting and fishing needs to be made. I like to fish steeper angles with long casts and select water to match that criteria. It lets me provide a different presentation, cast long dry line, and catch some fish .
     
  10. Leroy Laviolet

    Leroy Laviolet Aint no nookie like chinookie

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    Ahhhh.... Finally the dialogue I was looking for-

    Not rocket Science .... Seems to have escaped a couple of you-:rofl:

    This thread has nothing to do with simplicity or highly technical talk, it's about anilizing the use of equipment in a certain application and useing FACTS not OPINIONS to back it up Simple...

    It's not rocket science...

    On with the discusion boys !!:thumb:

    Floating hat, I couldn't agree more-

    Arron, I learned this exact thing this winter on a run on the Clearwater...
    Trees out over the top of me, ass to the rocks...
    15' rod... No problem once I realized the importance of anchor placement relative to also the angle of the foreward cast - Amazing what can be accomplished when failier, or grabbing a shorter rod isn't an option...
    Figuring out the limitations of a system isn't for the guy who says, screw it , this is too hard, when I can get " good enough " with an easier method-



    Yup, I'm with ya on that one in many cases, though not all obviously, for there are some "Rocket science situations" that they excell at !!:rofl:

    How good is this !! Excellent!!!!
    Arron, you are on it man, thank you for the input and Teaching us all some things based on the knowledge you have based on fact--
     
  11. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

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    Arron said it way back in his first post. After this statement there really isn't much else that needed to be said.

    Oh, except a quote from Scott O'Donnell; "long bellies are for fags". I am going to assume he could have meant long rods also.
     
  12. Panhandle

    Panhandle Active Member

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    LOL!!!

    Leroy, you're fishing and got one person to bite. Its not rocket science but you seem to want to validate your question, which I'm detecting you now realize is a silly question, which is why you're working harder to find validation. Why is it that you're not taking any merit in the 90% of posts that are not validating what you are looking for, but have productive info? So, you were bored or were drinking; get over it.
     
  13. Leroy Laviolet

    Leroy Laviolet Aint no nookie like chinookie

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    Manhandle-
    You really have not a clue, but anyone who regularly reads you condecending posts to literally everything you resond to on this forum already know's that- You seem to have the same sindrome that many guys have that spend more time behind the computer screen than on the river do. Anytime anyone disagrees with your opinion , you talk trash,put them down etc. You were challenged here on your "opinion" , and when it didn't work out for you, and you were exposed, like usual, you bash the subject and or the poster , and tell all what is going on behind scene . Nice work pal- :rofl: Your posts speak for themselves . My question was very simple , only a couple wanted to turn it into a pissing match . Happens all the time, no worrys here- The dialogue went well, and I learned some things, unlike professionals like yourself who have it all figured out :rofl:


    Nobody asked or forced you to respond to anything here. You as usual, are clueless , I love the way you explained it all to us though:rofl::rofl: - You fool nobody-

    See ya on the river- I'll be the guy with the switch rod on the snake -

    :thumb:
     
  14. Panhandle

    Panhandle Active Member

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    On second thought, you're right. You win.
     
  15. Leroy Laviolet

    Leroy Laviolet Aint no nookie like chinookie

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    Wasn't looking to "Win" Just wanted to discuss something on spey casting and fishing- That was all .On with where we were befor the hyjack ...
     
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