Sick to my stomach to see my favorite restaurant serving wild steelhead

Discussion in 'Steelhead' started by TC, Sep 11, 2011.

  1. Drifter

    Drifter Active Member

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    As long as i fish where native fish return i have no right to point a finger at other people using the resource . when "wild" steelhead are mentioned this means to me they are just hatchery stock that have spawned ! and by all the native fishermans rants all hatchery origin fish must be destroyed for the native fish to survive . so which is it - save natives or not kill the wild hatchery origin fish ?

    Do all of you think that if it has a fin that its a true native never spawning with a hatchery fish in its genes ? heck many of the summer run fish in my region were never native and they have quit stocking the skamania run for years , but they know that the "wild" run of summer steelhead are not native and want them out of the system to protect native winter fish . so we can keep finned fish in the salmon river system on the sandy to get rid of them all together .

    so which is it - save wild hatchery stock and feel good because it has no fin and keep depleting the native runs- or kill them all ?
     
  2. Chris Bellows

    Chris Bellows Your Preferred WFF Poster

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    the problem is that the commercial fleet targeting steelhead (tribal) does not fish selectively so by killing the hatchery fish they are also killing wild fish.

    native genes still exist in most of our streams. not all wild fish are just progeny from hatchery fish spawning in the wild... the fact is that hatchery fish have poor success in spawning in the wild.

    the thought that "wild fish are just hatchery progeny" is total BS and mostly put forward by those who do not want to see any changes to the hatchery industrial complex.
     
  3. Jordan Simpson

    Jordan Simpson Active Member

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  4. dflett68

    dflett68 Active Member

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    The harvester lies a little, the distributor lies a little, the merchant is intentionally ignorant with the help of the distributor, and we consumers are the most blissfully and willfully ignorant of all. We bask in the delusion that if we can afford it (or borrow to afford it) and buy it at market, and the govt or one of it's agencies has approved, we can operate with a clear conscience. But when we are extra interested/knowledgeable on a sliver topic, we pick and choose which issues to go deeper on, to distrust the system on, and this is one of them. Is there anyone here complaining about restaurants serving wild steelhead who doesn't use other resources which have negative impacts to others/future generations/environment/human rights/etc. simply because it's legal and they have the wherewithal to do it?
     
  5. Drifter

    Drifter Active Member

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    I respect your comment ! the thread should of read native fish being served then , because if you think every fish without a fin is a native - that my friend is the total bullshit i will not buy .

    since the thread was titled "wild" fish i asked a question and you did not answer it . i know the facts and they state that knowing the difference between wild and native fish takes gene testing with almost all the hatchery gene stock on the west coast to compare with the genes of said native fish to prove it - is a truly native fish . so which is it - let the "wild" fish live and keep reducing our native strain or seperate them and make sure they know they are doing whats best for the "native fish" thinking saving "wild fish" is the best thing for the natives is false in my opinion . calling all non clipped fish native we all know is false . it appears to me that seperation of all hatchery origin also meaning hatchery fish that spawned in the wild and so called natives that have any hatchery gene in it - keeping them from native stocks would be the best thing for native stocks - the question is how do you do that ? without millions of dollars in gene testing every fish that has a fin . in my mind saving wild fish with hatchery genes just makes the battle for natives being never solved ! but your right i like hatchery fish and i like native fish - i can swing both ways catch and release with flies or drift fish bait and kill them all . the difference is i have an open mind . if you all want to save wild fish no matter where it came from then what the hell is all the native bullshit that's going on about ?

    Either save the true natives and kill all wild and hatchery fish or be content with hatchery strain fish in the rivers without planting - but it sounds to me everyone wants it they're way to save the wild fish no matter where it came from so you save the natives in the process . now the hatchery origin wild fish spawn with the native fish just like a stocked fish .

    So why are wild fish ok in the system ? its in the wording "WILD" fish are not "NATIVE" fish , and native fish are not wild fish .
     
  6. Ryan Nathe

    Ryan Nathe Member

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    It is true that 'wild' means a fish spawned in the wild irrespective of parental lineage, but when people say 'wild' I truly think they mean 'native'. The best, most cost effective way to reduce and eliminate future hatchery influences is to stop planting hatchery fish and in the meantime to harvest all fish that are KNOWN to be hatchery fish, ie fin clipped. While not all hatchery fish are fin clipped, NOT A SINGLE 'wild or native' fish has a fin clip.
     
  7. Dan Nelson

    Dan Nelson Hiker, Fisher, Writer, Bum

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    FYI: Here's another angle on the "wild steelhead/wild salmon" marketing scams that take place in restaurants and stores:

    http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2011/sep/03/fishing-for-fakes/

    From the story:

    "A study this year by the University of Washington-Tacoma found that 38 percent of fish ordered in restaurants was not what it was billed when genetic tests were conducted."
     
  8. Drifter

    Drifter Active Member

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    So what we want is "FAKE NATIVES" ok i get it now . but i don't want fake natives now what ?

    saying wild fish are native is false to me - but that's just me i must be an idiot . when i started fishing they were called native and it stayed that way for years until recently . now its a WILD THING throwing in the fact that hatchery fish have spawned and do make up a lot of the WILD strain in our rivers . but now you've explained it for me and i get it - fake natives = "wild" and natives means "native" - i get it !!!

    so again are "wild" fish good for our native strains ? its a simple question .
     
  9. Ryan Nathe

    Ryan Nathe Member

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    Fishcentral, you are obviously twisting words to defend your view. You want to keep that status quo,( continuing to harvest hatchery fish and possibly unclipped fish?) and that is fine (wrong, but you are entitled to your own view), but to misconstrue what I said as defending 'fake natives' is kind of ridiculous.

    No, unclipped hatchery strain fish are not good for natives. I dont think anyone was saying they were, but it is not currently possible to tell the difference streamside.
     
  10. Ryan Nathe

    Ryan Nathe Member

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    Wild does not necessarily mean 'fake native', we both know this.
     
  11. Drifter

    Drifter Active Member

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    Thanks the point i was trying to make was that hatchery origin wild fish are not good for native fish . that's simple - if we are going to be happy with wild hatchery stock in the rivers we are still not protecting native fish . i'm all for native fish , i'm just not for saying that hatchery strain wild fish are OK and stocked fish are not . thinking that - that's all we have to do . save the true natives or have hatchery stock plants for the take . its just my view of things .
     
  12. TC

    TC I live with wind knots

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    Wow, Ok, what a fun little discussion and I have learned a bit reading through this. However, all this sounds a bit like Eugenics to me. FishCentral says, and I guess many agree, that "Native" are superior to hatchery that have turned wild. It sounds like this is an undebatable fact. OK. though I am not sure I follow. "Native" fight stronger? prove it. where did the hatchery genes come from? "Native" would have to be the only viable answer. So the original hatchery grew up on crap food. soilent green. cool. but not learning that blood lust fight of a true warrior/survivor. I get that. But then their spawn go out, eat all the same stuff, fight the same battles as the old "native" warriors do, and are less of a steelhead because of their bloodline? c'mon. Our country was formed to get away from that elitist bullshit right?

    Look, Hatcheries were formed due to the depleting resource, with some success, but certainly not enough. And not enough that when the spawn grow to be a wild steelhead, that we can go commercially harvesting all over the place. That is why I hate to see "Wild Steelhead" in a restaurant. Farmed? Ok, your choice if you want to eat it or not.

    If I am wrong about this, and the hatchery industrial complex is such a horrible thing to "Native" them educate me with real Eugenics science. Cool?
     
  13. Evan Burck

    Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

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    This is more than I can type up on my mobile device, but I'll just say that hatcheries do more to replace steelhead stocks than to supplement them.
     
  14. Ryan Nathe

    Ryan Nathe Member

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    There are a ton of peer reviewed scientific articles available on the internet showing why hatchery fish are a horrible thing towards natives. There have even been threads on this fishing forum with articles attached. Search one of the recent Elwha threads if you are interested in the cold hard science. It is out there, easily found.
     
  15. ak_powder_monkey

    ak_powder_monkey Proud to Be Alaskan

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    hatchery salmon are marketed as wild fish all the time... 10% of copper river sockeye (the best sockeye in the world or whatever BS there is) are hatchery...

    I think the root of the problem is there are hatcheries at all. Until we stop stocking hatchery fish (that need to be harvested) hatchery fish will continue to be targeted in non selective ways (like bait fishing).