skagit vs. the world.

Salmo_g

Well-Known Member
20 strips? I never cast more than 8 strips with my Skagit as best I recall. Excessive stripping is hard on my left shoulder. If I'm fishing the CW or were to fish the Thompson again, I use a different line. Seems like the steelhead Spey revolution began as a way to effectively fish more water, but quickly turned into a scheme to keep the fly fishing industry from going stale. As a practical matter, how many additional steelhead have been caught because of Spey? I've been catching less.

Sg
 
G

golfman65

Guest
Golfman try 20 plus pulls while useing a lines that totals 117-120ft from holding point to fly and then tell me which takes more skill. But you are on the right track, what the hell does a line system have to do with skill???????? I never said anyone should use one or the other, is a skagit easier for a new angler to throw fishable distances than a long belly would be.....sure it is, that is one of the reasons the whole skagit thing happend, easy for guides to get clients making fishable casts.



Trail by the way is on the Washington BC border on the Columbia river. My home water used to be the Thompson river but now frequent the Snake, Clearwater drainages for steel, only 4 1/2 hrs and I am putting on my waders, although the Columbia where I live has big rainbows with the largest recorded caught by rod and reel being 24lbs + and is free flowing unlike what the Columbia is down south.


got ya...was looking at your place and thought trail bc and I screwed that up with terrace bc ...and your right that is a whole nother ball game..I think why so many of these lines have gone to heads only so you can add a running line and literally really bomb them..i.e. your carrons....

Philster, I used sinking for a long time too but have switched to either varvis or lately kind of old school rio powercoil which at .030 is slick but floats decent and shoots well.....thought I would give up some distance with the Rio but not that much of a difference and easy to hold in cold weather...

I'd would take that Mohlin...would like nice next to my sara...damn ho that I am...
 

Philster

Active Member
Philster, I used sinking for a long time too but have switched to either varvis or lately kind of old school rio powercoil which at .030 is slick but floats decent and shoots well.....thought I would give up some distance with the Rio but not that much of a difference and easy to hold in cold weather...
I'm going to test some stuff speybum recommended this offseason for my 11.5 and 10.5 which throw the same short head weights. It floats. Not sure about it yet as it's pretty fine diameter.
 

inland

Active Member
My question, and understand clearly that it was a question from the untalented and uninformed, was to Speyniac. He indicated that he could pull his long line in and shorten it in tight quarters. I can do the same with my Airflo Delta (standard, not long). In doing so I think that the mass carrying capability of the line is reduced because less of the line is forming the driving D loop of the cast.

If you misinterpreted my question as me stating some knowledge like I know what I'm talking about, I fear you are mistaken. Merely a question about what I've been taught and learned in limited two handed use of the crazy physics dynamics of spey casting.

I guess since we are establishing, or not, street cred, what is the answer? If I have the talent to cast a mid weight tip and fly on an 80' belly line and I get in tight quarters, can I still deliver that payload if I pull in 40' of the line system? Will I still be able to deliver it at length, or must I focus only on the near seam? I'm asking because I know that I don't know shit about that situation.

I just know a little bit about how to get my skagit system into fishable places. In my hands, those are not that far downrange, I have clear limits. Those are not precision and delicate presentations, I'm a hack. And while we are at it, what is street cred? I'm not hip either. What I am is fascinated about casting lines and as I slowly build skill in one area I hope to expand into others.

Thanks Inland.
Mumbles I don't know the answer as I don't know what the guy is using. What kind of rod. How it flexes. Rod length. What line. What tips. What flies. Even if we do know we still can't answer your questions of 'effectiveness' as it is the individual and their choices to determine what they want to do. Meaning that you or I may struggle like crazy with their outfit but they make it look like magic.

William
 

Ed Call

Well-Known Member
I can live with that. I'm pretty sure that a long belly pulled way in for tight quarters would cause me lots of frustration. I tried it with my airflo delta and anything that brought the sweet spot into the guides any distance was really just impossible for me. I guess at my skill level I need a lot of things to go right and have a lot to learn about adapting to the variables that I find on the river.

And I've seen "that guy". The one that can take something that I would never be able to cast and bomb it time and time again, unfurling those tight loops in the most impossible of locations...cast after cast after cast. I'd like to be that guy when I grow up.
 

Philster

Active Member
I tried it with my airflo delta and anything that brought the sweet spot into the guides any distance was really just impossible for me. I guess at my skill level I need a lot of things to go right and have a lot to learn about adapting to the variables that I find on the river..
Think 4 weight trout rod dryline casting next time. You can't load the rod, but you can throw tight little dry fly lazer loops by tip casting, throwing the weight of the line like yarn off the end of a stick. You can't do a real spey cast, you just want to get things in about the same position before your forward delivery, but remember you have no load, so make like Hermione doing Wingardium Leviosa. Swish and flick!
 

yuhina

Tropical member
Oh yeah almost forgot..... why in the hell would I want a mohlin??????:rofl:
Bruce,

Mohlin is just a little "symbolic" encouragement that I sincerely offer here... to encourage everybody post up their "positive energy", to participate this discussion and better, a little gift to the brave and good caster that show us the good! "All for the good" is what are we doing here... nothing to do with the prize's value. Look around who is posting in this thread in WFF? No much newbie throwing junks, right! Why?, because we are getting serious about this thread. Weather the gift is valuable or not; it just a symbol that tell people WE ARE SERIOUS ABOUT YOUR DEBATE WITH PHILSTER

Yes, you can keep going on and on about the verbal debating... "I can do this, I know some people can do this..." what is the point?? It seems (to me), you are more interested in polarizing and engaging in debate per se than educating people. YES, I BELIEVE YOU CAN DO THIS, seriously, but most importantly, I WANT TO SEE AND LEARN HOW YOU DO IT. Don't you think this is your responsibility to show people how to do it after all those talking? don't you think it is the best solution to sweep off all the doubtful thinking. or you just like keep... talking...

Mark
 
Mark,
I do teach at the Claves that I demo at and the greatest joy that I have when I am guideing is when the client tells me that he learned alott during our time fishing. Video clips mean very little compared to up close and personal teaching. You want to learn??? Book a trip with me and you will learn lots ;-) or come to one of the Claves that I am at.
I was not belittling the Mohlin fine reel in its right but without being attacked for being `one of those guys` I prefer my old Perfects.
So Mark the balls in your court and btw if I am too far away and you have an open mind about learning I can recomend several casters for your long belly journey.
Where did your peacock go?????
 
Wow Philster is that what I get for trying to have a constructive discussion????????
Here is a quite from a e-mail I got concerning all this.......Bruce, Yeah you worthless goober for not spending hours and hours of taking time to shoot decent vids to teach them. Hehehehehehehehehe!!!!!
 

Philster

Active Member
20 strips? I never cast more than 8 strips with my Skagit as best I recall. Excessive stripping is hard on my left shoulder. If I'm fishing the CW or were to fish the Thompson again, I use a different line. Seems like the steelhead Spey revolution began as a way to effectively fish more water, but quickly turned into a scheme to keep the fly fishing industry from going stale. As a practical matter, how many additional steelhead have been caught because of Spey? I've been catching less.

Sg
So you're out fishing, and the water changes to a 200 hundred foot wide, even flow, perfect riffle with orange to big ass pumpkin sized rocks. It's only a hundred or so yards long. You going to change lines? And while you're futzing around let someone low hole you, which would be fine, because you aren't even in the water, and you're messing with your gear. You going to leave on the skagit and fish no more than 8 pulls? two less than Ed? How skagitmaster-y of you!

We are men of action...
 

Philster

Active Member
Wow Philster is that what I get for trying to have a constructive discussion????????
Here is a quite from a e-mail I got concerning all this.......Bruce, Yeah you worthless goober for not spending hours and hours of taking time to shoot decent vids to teach them. Hehehehehehehehehe!!!!!
I thought a guy who made jokes would recognize one! I've enjoyed our exchange. You think it was easy to find a pic of a peacock ass? Consider it a token of my respect for you!
 
So, what about the benefits of working your fly back up the bank from 80' to 45' to make your cast. I can't speak from personal experience, but I bet a LOT of steelhead are caught doing this. Lots of fish hold close to the bank, right? And having to strip the fly that 40 feet or so up the close holding lane keeps you fishing that much longer, and in a lane KNOWN to be prime holding water, especially in the winter. Losing out on that seems like it wold be DISADVANTAGE in covering water most effectively.
I bet a lot more fish get to take a look at the fly this way. And especially if they re holding just outside of the path of your fly, multiple more fish can potentially be targeted versus picking up for another cast with all that belly out there, and avoiding them completely. I realize if youre covering water effectively you should have already covered that water, but the stripping in of skagit casting allows you to cover it again, in a way that presents the fly differently from the way it was covered before
 

yuhina

Tropical member
Ok just a little touchy after the attack from yahhhhhooooooona lol.
Gotcha good one and yep finding good pics to Zing people can be trying.
Attack??

I am confused?!
All I try to do is to convince myself you are not a fake. What kind of attack?
The peacock is a great joke in our field. But I realized it is a bit too deep for the audience here... it is a simple idea from sexual selection that telling people "signal is only important if it mean something" do you know what I am talking about? see.... that is the main reason I remove it ...

Mark