skagit vs. the world.

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by Panhandle, Feb 4, 2011.

  1. Panhandle

    Panhandle Active Member

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    I'm sure I can't as easily.
     
  2. Leroy Laviolet

    Leroy Laviolet Aint no nookie like chinookie

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    do'n it 4 the chinookie
    ...........
     
  3. Philster

    Philster Active Member

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    My first spey line was one I made after a long phone call with Mike Maxwell. It was a double taper 9 wt, with much of the taper removed, and looped 7 wt tips in floating, type 3 and leadcore, that I threw off the original sage 91404. So yeah, I'm pretty sure that there is a definite limit to what you can do with a long belly in tight confines... When you are essentially roll casting, with your anchor point 15 feet in front of you with a tip and big fly because you can't throw any line behind you, it doesn't work. Heck of a lot of fun with floaters, and I used to actually argue with guys that you couldn't effectively fish out at 100 feet, so my 60 to 70 casts were all anybody could ever need. I had to apologize many years later when Rio came out with later generation windcutters. I had no idea how far out I was fishing when the lines were one color, but the color change made me realize I was fishing WAY farther out than I thought I was.

    But yeah. I've earned the right to say that I am sure you cannot fish long bellys with tips and big heavy flies with little backcast room. I still own and periodically throw grandspeys and XLT dry lines, so I'm not militant to either style, but I have no interest in any line longer than a midspey for tips and big flies, and even those only on rods 13'6" or longer.
     
  4. fisshman26

    fisshman26 Member

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    OK let me rephrase that question.......just because You cannot do it, does it mean that it is not possible, and this is not a slight regarding your casting skills just a simple question.
     
  5. Philster

    Philster Active Member

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    I would like to meet the person, who in the scenario I described can. I have yet to. And I've met some amazing casters, including big name folks. With no loop behind you, and your anchor way out in front, can you lift 40 feet of line, a tip, and a big nasty fly? I'm not asking a rhetorical question, I'm asking a direct question. Can you? Do you know anybody who can? How many tries? How much control will they have? Will the line, tip, and fly lay out in anything approaching straight line, or by the time things straighten enough for a nice swing, is the swing basically over?

    It's just not a good tool for that. For reasonable flies, dry line, It's a very fun tool. Most of us don't fish bamboo anymore for a reason. There are better options for most situations. There are about 3.5 months of the year where I fish, that I would be perfectly happy just fishing longs. The rest of the time it's a knife at a gun fight. But at a knife fight, or buffet, they're a lot of fun.
     
  6. Big Tuna

    Big Tuna Member

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    Kind of like this thread. Good thing we WFFers are superior to those guys when it comes to having pages of stupid arguments.
     
  7. yuhina

    yuhina Tropical member

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    OK, I like this thread has turned into a constructive direction. Good Job! Philster ...and Bruce.
    I am actually getting interested in long line casting and ready for ordering some lines and doing more studies!

    Here is the request for Bruce and other long line casters. If you can post a castiing video here and fit the casting scenario that Philster just described. You take this Bo Mohlin reel home. It's not the most valuable reel in the world, but it is a hand-made beauty (piece by piece from Bo Mohlin)and function as good as it gets IMHO. LINK
    [​IMG]
    Noted: This is NOT a pissing match, not fishy or trash talking, this is a serious request from a casting mechanic enthusiast. I think it is reasonable price to pay to see this cast.

    The only condition I might note here is that long line is really a relative term from line/rod ratio. So let's put it in a more realistic fishing condition for this request. 16 feet rod (or under) on 70' line sounds ok?
    Another thing, it should not be in a form that resembling traditional roll cast (jump roll would be fine)

    Mark
     
  8. Panhandle

    Panhandle Active Member

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    Tuna, do you think this is a stupid argument? The last couple pages ate actually more constructive than 95% of the aimless BS I read on here. Perhaps you can quit wasting our time and enlighten us with some brilliant topic.

    Bruce, Phil pretty much nailed it. You can shoot skeet with a BB gun, but it would be pretty damn hard, especially when you have a 12 gauge at your side as well.

    Thanks, yuhina lol!
     
  9. Philster

    Philster Active Member

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    Talk to me before you do. I have a couple big ones lying around in the box from whey I had my D. Brown winston, and my Boom Stick: A 15 foot 10 weight Daiwa Alltmor! Talk about a freakin' BEAST! I also have a used 6/7 or 7/8 I don't remember which, XLT from my old 15'2" solstice. Like I said. I'm speaking from personal experience. I'm ready to change my mind, but words aren't going to do it.
     
  10. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

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    Philster, what line do you have for the Alltmor? I have a Lochmor Z 15'3" 9/10 I need a line for. I think the last time I had something working on it the line may have been a 9/10/11 Windcutter but that was many moons ago and I can't remember now. Talk about beasts.
     
  11. golfman65

    golfman65 Guest

    Damn I sure wish I could win that Mohlin it's a sweet reel Yuhina....and I echo what philster is saying...Can think of a run on the skagit...more then one really where you step out of the tree's and right into the water...high water like recently your waist deep and only 5' out if that...It takes some Mortensen type casting to get it out..and that's the only way I could see this happening....i.e. turn your body to face the bank...and on right left pick it up and single spey it out on a 45* or so angle....it works with a scandi at roughly 50' with leader ... but when I've tried it with a skagit and a heavy fly you need to snap it and it's do-able but not pretty...

    I don't know if you could do this with a long line...but most mid speys are 65' with floating tip...if you take that tip off and add 8 or 10' of sinktip your right around 50' correct???

    Think you should classify the size and weight of fly and tip you want to see used yuhina...cause thinking about the above, I think Bruce could do it !!!
     
  12. Philster

    Philster Active Member

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    Lochmor Z and alltmor were completely different. Your's had redesigned ferrules and blanks, as the Alltmors did get a reputation for exploding, but nobody knew enough to know what generations were the ones to avoid. I loved that rod, but I needed my biggest bluewater reel, with not much backing for the lines. It ended up going to Jack Cook. I used 10/11 XLT and a 9/10 grandspey on it. Compeletely different lines. The Grandspey was like casting a giant windcutter (not a midspey), and the XLT was more like a Wulff Triangle Taper if you remember those. One little hitch at the end of the forward stroke would translate into a quite an aerial mend on that XLT :rofl: Give Aaron Reimer a call. He's an encyclopedia.
     
  13. Philster

    Philster Active Member

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    Well, we aren't talking midspeys. :clown:
     
  14. fisshman26

    fisshman26 Member

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    In a word Philster I can, and I do know a few people that could. If you know Aaron then you probably know at least one of them as well. Lines and rods have come a long way from the old grandspeys and xlts, you would not believe that on the new generation Carron 65 you can put a tip right on the front without cutting or how far a Carron 95 can go in a real time fishing situation as well as casting in a situation with `little` backcast room but it sounds like you dont believe already ;-)
    Whats wrong with making things hard anyways.....I like it!
     
  15. Panhandle

    Panhandle Active Member

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    Nothing wrong with that at all. If that's what you enjoy and feel challenged by, then awesome.