Skykomish Dollies

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by jmara6864, Aug 26, 2014.

  1. ChaseBallard

    ChaseBallard bushwhacker

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2013
    Messages:
    178
    Likes Received:
    231
    Location:
    Seatown

    Luckily It aint rocket science. If you arnt by-catching them with steelhead patterns, sculpzillas, white, tan, black or brown bunny leaches or other big ass chunks of natural colored rabbit fur will do the trick.

    They may not fight like steel, but always love the aggressive grab of a fat bull.
     
  2. zen leecher aka bill w

    zen leecher aka bill w born to work, forced to fish

    Joined:
    May 6, 2008
    Messages:
    4,171
    Likes Received:
    1,678
    Location:
    Moses Lake, WA


    I used to think the ones north of the Puyallup were dollies. I now accept Smalma's opinion as gospel and call them sea-going bull trout.
     
    Gary Knowels likes this.
  3. C&CRods

    C&CRods not your average member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2013
    Messages:
    508
    Likes Received:
    707
    Location:
    seattle
    On a purple leach last winter. Love bull trout
     

    Attached Files:

  4. zen leecher aka bill w

    zen leecher aka bill w born to work, forced to fish

    Joined:
    May 6, 2008
    Messages:
    4,171
    Likes Received:
    1,678
    Location:
    Moses Lake, WA
    The WDFW maintains records for both dollies and bulls. At one time the fish north of the Puyallup were thought to be dollies. I wonder what would happen if a good sized fish was caught in the Skagit or one of its open tributaries that was of record size. Would the WDFW class it as a dolly or a bull?
     
  5. Preston

    Preston Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2004
    Messages:
    3,114
    Likes Received:
    1,485
    Location:
    .
    I don't think I'd ever heard that, I do know that a migratory char from the Puyallup was described by G.Suckley in 1858 and named Salmo confluentus (all char were later reclassified into the genus Salvelinus). But that was in the day when "splitters" ruled the taxonomic roost and almost every newly discovered fish, no matter how little it differed from close relatives, was awarded specific status. "Bull trout" was a commonly applied name for the large freshwater trout occurring in the Columbia River basin and intermountain areas though biologists still considered it to be a Dolly Varden (S. malma).

    It was only 1978 that Dan Cavender, at Ohio State University, carried out an extensive examination of existing specimens and concluded that there were significant and consistent skeletal differences between S. malma and this "other" char and in 1980 it was granted status as a species and given the name originally applied to that long ago Puyallup River fish; S. confluentus. Subsequent genetic studies have reinforced this result, showing all of Puget Sound's char to be S. confluentus, as well as showing it to be more closely related to the Asian white-spotted char (S, leukomaenis) than to any North American char.
     
    Matt B and Chris Johnson like this.
  6. zen leecher aka bill w

    zen leecher aka bill w born to work, forced to fish

    Joined:
    May 6, 2008
    Messages:
    4,171
    Likes Received:
    1,678
    Location:
    Moses Lake, WA
    Preston, this was for the purpose of retention. The Feds and WDFW decided the dividing line was the Puyallup river. North of there was dolly's and below there was bulls. I think this distinction was for retention only.
     
  7. Smalma

    Smalma Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2004
    Messages:
    3,697
    Likes Received:
    2,239
    Location:
    Marysville, Washington
    Zen-

    I don't think the following is correct -

    "The Feds and WDFW decided the dividing line was the Puyallup river. North of there was dolly's and below there was bulls. I think this distinction was for retention only. "

    As I recall the decision some 20 years (pre-ESA listing) on where Dolly Varden/bull trout could be retained was based on the status of the char populations. At the time the only basins where there was spawning ground information for the char was avail were the Skagit and Snohomish basins. As a result bulls over 20 inches were legal to retain on portions of the Skagit and Snohomish basin but not on basins like the Puyallup or Nooksack or most of the rest of the State for that matter.

    Not only were there spawning ground info in those basins following putting the 20 inch minimum size limit and reduced bag limit in place those spawning ground counts showed that the Skagit and Snohomish (Skykomish) populations were increasing.

    Curt
     
  8. zen leecher aka bill w

    zen leecher aka bill w born to work, forced to fish

    Joined:
    May 6, 2008
    Messages:
    4,171
    Likes Received:
    1,678
    Location:
    Moses Lake, WA
    Smalma, you probably know better than me. So, in your opinion what would happen if/when someone catches a 12 lb "dolly" up on the Sauk and submits it for a record? How would WDFW classify it?

    I knew one of the contract employees that snorkeled the Suiattle trib/s for dollies for tagging purposes. He had some good information.
     
  9. Smalma

    Smalma Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2004
    Messages:
    3,697
    Likes Received:
    2,239
    Location:
    Marysville, Washington
    Zen-
    Based on what is known today a char of that size that came from the Skagit/Sauk would be classified as a bull trout. As a particular matter fish that size are caught in that basin annually and at least once every decade or two one larger than the State record bull trout (22#s) are caught in there.

    curt