Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by zen leecher aka bill w, Jul 16, 2013.
Where you driving to Drain from Boring?
Actually it wasn't. The founding fathers (especially Jefferson) were quite opposed to religion. Reading their writings, it's quite apparent how the felt on the topic. However, they very much believed in the freedom to worship or not worship as you choose.
"In God We Trust" was not on our money or part of our mantra until 1956.
Annual "Stand By Me" festival in town this weekend. Hit those mailboxes!
Here in Dillon it is so safe that people pull into the Safeway parking lot. Park their trucks and leave them running unlocked while they shop. If you did this in Washington, your truck would be gone in two minutes.
I agree that all small towns are different....I left Seattle in 1992, spent 8 years in the Flathead Valley, then moved to Baker City, Oregon. I teach band, so everyone knows who I am..... I worked in Columbia Falls, lived there and in Whitfish. Columbia Falls is very blue collar with an aluminum plant and Plum Creek timber. Whitefish is interesting, a resort town with home prices from 80,000 to several million. Both places felt very safe and had a ton of nice people. Now I live in the country, west of Haines, Oregon, fifteen miles from Baker High School where I work. In this town everyone waves and if you break down, usually the next person will help you. Baker has had about 10,000 residents for the past 100 years. I think that is why people here are so accepting of others and new folks. It is a great place to live and even though all my best friends are musicians from Seattle, I see it as a nice place to visit, but I sure would not want to live there.
Jefferson and Franklin were deists. Just because they weren't trinitarian, unlike the bulk of the other founding fathers, doesn't mean they weren't believers in God. Revisionists love to pull the Jefferson/Franklin card and twist it around a bit... cute... just cute. haha - you make me chuckle.
Note the capital G in the opening paragraph of the Declaration of Independence...
IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
I didn't twist anything. I said they weren't fond of religion (they weren't), and they weren't christians. No need to get snarky about it.
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State. -Thomas Jefferson
Note Jefferson wrote that "the legislature should make no law respecting the establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof". In other words, Jefferson very clearly said there should be no state religion such as the Church of England; but he also equally clearly said that there should never be a law enacted that prohibits (i.e. restricts if some fashion) the free exercise of religion. Since he penned these words, it is also clear that Jefferson would be appalled at any attempt to remove the free exercise of religion from the public square, which includes the attempts to remove Christmas and Easter from public discourse and celebration.
And I must remind folks that Franklin was the one at the Constitutional Convention if Philadelphia that rose and recommended every day's proceedings begin with a prayer invoking God's direction and blessing in those great matters. If her were anti-religion as you suggest, he would never have done that. Yet the fact is he did and it was recorded by the scribes for the record so we can all see what he did.
However, it is clear that the writers of our US Constitution did not want a state sponsored religion such as the Church of England, while at the same time expected those who were not believers to respect believers and not attempt the infringe on the believer's ability to practice his chosen religion in public places.
I don't think anyone here was saying we should.
Huh. I kinda read into what you said a bit. But, your statement this nation wasn't founded on a belief in God was just an opinion that wasn't shared by the poster you replied to, nor by me. The principles are clearly based in the founding documents. Had a crappy day. Sorry 'bout the snarky reply, definitely could have hands off keyboard for a minute before replying. Cheers
Well.... this thread has taken an odd turn...
I don't regret growing up in a small town (La Grande) in the least. NEO is the redneck part of Oregon so I ended up a redneck liberal. I'm a half breed. I moved from Redneck Central to Liberal Land. I can see the advantages and disadvantages of both worlds.
I'll eventually move back to NEO when I'm dead. Our family has burial plots in Summerville Cemetery. I love the solitude and scenery of NEO but I'm not too keen on the politics of those who live there.
NEO is a beautiful place but some who were born and raised there and never left do not have the same respect for the environment as the "outsiders". "It's my land and I'll do anything I damned well please to the land" is something I can't accept.
I was once an Explorer and we were the color guard for local parades. Those flags get damned heavy after a mile or so. At least we were the first guys to reach the end of the parade so we could collapse in some shade before anyone else.
I think the word "values" gets people stirred up. I think there are American values though that all of us have. Individual freedom, personal responsibility, freedoms from tyranny. Those things are not partisan and the problem I see is that the "people" are losing the power and the government is gaining the power because we are so far removed from what is going on. If we lose any of those 3 things it is on us.
so about that casting pier?
A very nice pier. Even has benches fastened to the dock. No swimming, no boat mooring, only fishing activities permitted. I hope "fishing only" doesn't limit someone's first amendment rights.
Try not to get side tracked here I was getting into some deep thoughts here