So this swinging thing.

#76
Low holers and people who don't offer beer when they float past, that is what I consider selfish. Catching as many fish as you can? I get that if you are poaching and have 8 fish sitting on ice back in the truck, but if you are C&R? There is no logic. That makes about as much sense as pre-heating a microwave.
 

PT

Physhicist
#77
Hypothetically, a guy has spent 1200 days on the water and has 400 steelhead to hand. On his 1201st day he catches 7 rather than quitting after 2..... Instead of .334721 fish per day he now has a whopping .3388842 fish per day average. My guilt meter didn't budge with that exceptional day. ;)

I have great respect for every fish I catch. The keepers get dispatched immediately so they don't suffer and the fish to be released are done so as quick as possible. As sportsmen, that is our duty.
 

James Mello

Inventor of the "closed eye conjecture"
#79
If my stellar day ends up being a 7 fish day, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. There's been enough skunkings over the years to keep the numbers well in the fishes favor.

How does hooking a few fish disrespect anybody? I don't get that line of thought.

Depends on how you view the resource. When there are *tons* of fish, like on the Madison, having a 50 fish day means little when there's like 5000 trout per mile. When sore mouthing a dozen fish when a run size is less that 5000 for 45 miles of river, you are in effect reducing the ability for others to catch fish. Basically, someones need starts to weigh more heavily than others, which can be viewed as greedy. For me, I've had stellar days, but quit after a while. To me I'd rather catch some one day and let others try to get theirs too, or myself if I came out the next day. Either that, or I start to do goofy shit like skating for winter runs just to see if it can be done.

Also, after a certain point, when does 7 - 12 steelhead days really matter? After that 7th fish, could you tell me anything about any of the random fish you've caught without having to go back to a camera? That of course is a personal view and certainly doesn't hold true for all.
 

hydrological

beads are NOT flies and snagging is just ghetto
#80
gets my vote for all time most obvious troll. kudos on using such effective bait. i am reminded again why i avoid the steelhead forum, and to a lesser extent wff, and washington as whole.
should be called the the "i need to fish more and troll less forum"

I'd heard tell of a river with some possible steelhead hangin around so yesterday I decided to give her a try. Now as most of you know I'm a die hard indicator guy and I've argued indicator virtues and will continue to do so with whomever will listen (or won't listen for that matter :)), but I realized that it has been far to long since I've really compared it to anything else in moving water (in lakes I switch it up all the time). So I decided to dark side it for awhile yesterday and swing it.

Armed with only a floating line (didn't even think to bring anything else), I started digging in my fly boxes looking for a likely candidate and I found a pattern tied by Formerguide that he sent in during our trout streamer swap. http://www.washingtonflyfishing.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=51824&title=formerguide&cat=18837 I tied it on below a large nymph for extra weight and in order to make sure the flies drop a bit before the swing I did quarter down, I cast slightly up stream and let the flies work down the drift. Third one of those right at the beginning of the line coming tight on to start the swing the line stopped, I set the hook and fish on.
View attachment 37560

Now this next part might seem strange, but after I landed the fish I felt a bit cheated, and I realized I'd felt the same thing before when I've stopped watching my indicator at the end of a run and hit fish when it swings. I wanted to see that indicator dip down, pause, twitch, dive, etc... Back went on the indicator, with the exact same set up and 3 or 4 casts later I'm on to another fish but this time I watched the indicator go down. This reconfirmed another thought I've had before; I know that for some people that unexpected tug/slam during a swing, that feeling of unexpectedness is what pumps the adrenaline but with the indicator I experience the same thing. During a drift, I never know where that indicator might stop it's downward migration and even if it does, when I set the hook there are no guarantees that the impediment of its journey was caused by a fish. Those first few head shakes "I" (see that I) feel are the same regardless of the catalyst of their beginnings. And I get the visual to boot!

That next fish was a tiny hatchery brat (20 1/4") that is dinner tonight.
 
#81
who the fuck is catching 7-12 steelhead a day? I must be a crappy fisherman....or I just need a boat and a 2 rod license and rig it up with side drifters on either side...awe, fuck it, I'll stick to hiking in...much more fun, see tons of cool shit, like the American Dipper that low-holed me three times last weekend...or the half eaten elk carcass I came across...no I didn't stick around long enough to find out what killed it--I think I already knew. Or the little winter wrens flitting around my feet as I bush-whack from path to river. Or the bald eagles I could hear, but not see...somehow, I am fortunate to squeeze in a fish or two in there sometimes. Last weekend, I didn't get that opportunity, but I did shake fins with a beauty of a Sea Run Cutthroat as by-catch.
 

Charles Sullivan

ignoring Rob Allen and Generic
#82
There is a river to the north where there were once signs posted by anglers asking to have people stop fishing after 2 fish. Seemed resonalble. The idea wasn't conservation based (it's a c&r river) but it was kind of a give everyone a chance thing.

On the at least one eastern Atlantic Salmon river (Matapedia?) you are required to stop fishing after either 2 or 3 fish. This may be conservation based to some extent, or it could be a social rule.

I have gone home many times after hooking one fish on my local river. Time to take the family out and get the wine. In fact, after the last steelhead I hooked, I drove home. It was a large fish that I was not going to top. I had a 3+ hour drive ahead of me. I was content. It was a great feeling. Satiated is not an adjective I can use to describe myself often with relation to steelheading. When it happens I role with it.

Go Sox,
cds
 

Irafly

Indi "Ira" Jones
#83
a person's argument does not break down when they are in the right.. selfishness has no place in steelhead fishing.
welcome to ignore.

Your believe does not offend me, but I certainly don't think you are in the right. I am impressed though that you are so unselfish that you have given up all attempt to catch fish anymore and that you run your computer using elctricity garnered completely off the grid. Nice work there.
 

Irafly

Indi "Ira" Jones
#84
gets my vote for all time most obvious troll. kudos on using such effective bait. i am reminded again why i avoid the steelhead forum, and to a lesser extent wff, and washington as whole.
should be called the the "i need to fish more and troll less forum"
Dang, you figured me out, that is exactly what my intend was, you read me so well, you are obviously too smart for me!

And yes my bait was so tempting wasn't it, heck I even hooked myself a "hydrological". He wanted to ignore it so bad but in the end even though he talks a big game about how he avoids the steelhead forum and how others should fish more, he still couldn't help but take a big ole mouthful of it.

So ironic isn't it that a guy would say I'm a troll, add nothing to the conversation or a report of his own and then say that others need to fish more. What a joke.
 

Irafly

Indi "Ira" Jones
#85
There is a river to the north where there were once signs posted by anglers asking to have people stop fishing after 2 fish. Seemed resonalble. The idea wasn't conservation based (it's a c&r river) but it was kind of a give everyone a chance thing.

On the at least one eastern Atlantic Salmon river (Matapedia?) you are required to stop fishing after either 2 or 3 fish. This may be conservation based to some extent, or it could be a social rule.

I have gone home many times after hooking one fish on my local river. Time to take the family out and get the wine. In fact, after the last steelhead I hooked, I drove home. It was a large fish that I was not going to top. I had a 3+ hour drive ahead of me. I was content. It was a great feeling. Satiated is not an adjective I can use to describe myself often with relation to steelheading. When it happens I role with it.

Go Sox,
cds
I will happily kill my two hatchery and be done, regardless of how great the fishing is.
 

Irafly

Indi "Ira" Jones
#86
Depends on how you view the resource. When there are *tons* of fish, like on the Madison, having a 50 fish day means little when there's like 5000 trout per mile. When sore mouthing a dozen fish when a run size is less that 5000 for 45 miles of river, you are in effect reducing the ability for others to catch fish. Basically, someones need starts to weigh more heavily than others, which can be viewed as greedy. For me, I've had stellar days, but quit after a while. To me I'd rather catch some one day and let others try to get theirs too, or myself if I came out the next day. Either that, or I start to do goofy shit like skating for winter runs just to see if it can be done.

Also, after a certain point, when does 7 - 12 steelhead days really matter? After that 7th fish, could you tell me anything about any of the random fish you've caught without having to go back to a camera? That of course is a personal view and certainly doesn't hold true for all.
I sometimes have my students engage in a brainstorming excersice where they make a list of at least 100 things related to a topic. Last time we did it I asked them to choose their top 10 ideas and average where on their list they fell. When we took a whole class average of the top ideas, it turns out that it was the 56th idea that ended up being best. You never know which fish will end up being that great memory. I can tell you that although I've only experienced a handful and a half of the more than 7 fish hooked steelhead days, that I have several great memories of specific fish past 7.
 
#87
gets my vote for all time most obvious troll. kudos on using such effective bait. i am reminded again why i avoid the steelhead forum, and to a lesser extent wff, and washington as whole.
should be called the the "i need to fish more and troll less forum"


How is that report considered a "troll" post? ...I got none of that (troll-like feeling) in his report. I got a great report that highlighted [to him] why he fishes the way he does (very similar to the way I fish--maybe that's why I usually like Ira's posts, or perhaps...just perhaps it's because they are always good, solid reports-then it's the trolls who apparently like to come out following that). If that's what a "troll" post is like, then there are shitload of trolls on here, there are a shitload of trolls on Speypages, there are a shitload of trolls on Westfly...etc etc etc...

It's no different than a report stating about how cool it was to swing up a nice steelhead...but somehow that's ok, right?
 

Rick Todd

Active Member
#89
Ira-thanks for stimulating a great thread. I'm glad you are enjoying the controversy, as am I. It points out a number of things including how anal some people are and how some of us are entirely lacking in a sense of humor! Keep up the good work Ira and lets go fishing together soon! Rick
 

Irafly

Indi "Ira" Jones
#90
Ira pretty much admitted that it was a troll thread on page 3.

Go Sox,
cds
Nah, I just admitted that some people would take my post that way based upon the title. I also admitted that I thought some others would respond negatively. I did not admitted that I was attempting to troll, besides everyone who knows me, knows that I indicator fish, so I don't troll much to catch my fish, I laser like focus my presentation to more appropriately encourage takes.