Spey Casting VS. Overhead Casting

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by yuhina, Jun 18, 2012.

  1. golfman65

    golfman65 Guest

    I find it odd that a couple of the Canadian sites ban swearing and some arguing even...I don't think anything gets settled that way and leads to more mis understandings and bad feelings then actually working out an issue or conflict...

    The nice thing about this board has been that you can say what you want for the most part and while some issues will never be resolved..i.e. beads on spey rods...at least there is discussion that isn't twarted...

    My problem with all of your posts is you never relent, even to guys who have way more experience, knowledge and skill...(and I'm not including myself in that as I'm not even close to those guys)

    An example of that is what your telling Ed in your last post...A shorter head might be easier in the wind when your a beginner but with time and skill a longer line can generate plenty of line speed to cut through the wind and be fished more effectively in some situations...
    I'm sure you've fished the mighty T. when it's been doing what it does best...blow!!!....at one time I would have packed a skagit in with my mid belly to switch over to in such wind...Time passes and you learn that you can generate the needed line speed with the longer lines and fish them in wind just as well and on such rivers they make more sense...

    The thing that I think your missing is..If you don't stick with the one line you'll never learn to fish it in all situations...I can say this from experience as I have way too many head wallets full of lines..
    Now they mostly sit in my shop as I stopped touting the suckers around have stuck with the one line...
    For me this has increased my skill as a caster as I no longer use the other lines as a bandage for my own lack of skill....The ability to use one line in wind, tight quarters etc. especially a longer line means you have to develop your casting abilities...

    I can remember arguing with Bruce and Timdog that a long (er) line couldn't be used in tight to a bank or under tree's etc. and they said and I have seen in person that not only can they be used in every situation but used effectively if so choosen...BUT that takes time on water and skill to learn and for what it's worth, that gives some of us much more pleasure then debating what line to use in each such situation and the whys of how it's designed!!!!

    Last , I shouldn't have used bitch, not very creative on my part..I apologize for that!!!
     
  2. yuhina

    yuhina Tropical member

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    Golfman65.

    Now, that is a good post! I appreciate that... I do agree what you said on most parts.
    Particularly fish one style and one line long enough until you discover the potential of that particular line.

    For people who don't know me... I take fly casting as serious as my professional career. period. I spey casting almost everyday indoors or outdoors. Why?, because there are so many challenges and potential to discover. If it is too simple and straight forward, then I won't get into it that much. Second, you might find me had some attitude in my posts, but please keep this in mind, I only and like to target the subjects itself, not taking it into personal. However, if I sensed people is teasing, I have to tease them back. As I said before, I am serious about fly casting as much as my career. I can shaking hands as friendly as you can imagine, teasing for teaser and fang to fang. This is my internet policy.

    Bruce K. is a interesting dude, he like to tease me, check out his last 100 posts. see how many of them are used to tease me? 30 % or more is direct toward me...what a honor huh? That's fine. I come to this site not only for educational information, but also for entertaining purpose... I do have a thick skin BTW.

    Remember I was teasing his heavy "energy saving" hammer theory. He is right about the "feel" part, but wrong about the "energy saving". That heavy hammer will FEEL easier if you need to hammer things all day. But what Bruce don't know is you are using THE SAME amount of energy to get the nails in regardless what hammer you use. The reason of light feel (from heavy hammer) is due to that we are using different kind of muscle/energy when swing heavy versus light hammer. Kenetic energy from the wrist versus potential energy from the forearm. In general, our forearm muscle is stronger than wrist muscle... that is the reason swing heavy hammer will make you feel easier.... Now you have it Bruce. Try to restraint yourself when you decided to tease me.

    Now what? study casting mechanic is not the end of fly fishing/casting, it's fun to have a little bit scientific principle, and a little general guidelines for every individual to fine tuning their cast style to suit different fishing situations.

    Regards,

    Mark
     
  3. fisshman26

    fisshman26 Member

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    Just don't want this one to disappear :)
     
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  4. Dan Page

    Dan Page Active Member

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    Mark,
    I'm not a physicist, but seems to me you are leaving out the affect of gravity here. The heavy hammer has gravity working on it more than the light hammer. The light hammer needs more muscle to use than the heavy hammer.
     
  5. Brady Burmeister

    Brady Burmeister Active Member

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    Time for a new vortex to get sucked into. Speaking of a vortex, let's talk about how its principles are applied to the snake roll.....
     
  6. yuhina

    yuhina Tropical member

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    Golfman65,

    I agree a DT line on a good hand could be deadly. while I enjoy your post and agree some of your point... there is one common misconducted reasoning I just have to mention it again.

    When we compare efforst and energy expenses in casting different lines, we should compare them in the same platform . In your case, you should compare both lines under the same hands. not DT line in skillful hands and Compact heads in a rookie's. We call it standardized experimental and control group test in science (everything being equal).

    Under skillful hands, every line could be deadly! Doesn't it?! I am sure there are certain situation, as Ed mentioned DT line would be wonderful and deadly line to fish.

    As I said before, fly casting is a combination of art and science. Science can't explain the feel, but it will provide some guidelines for us to follow and to discover. One related phenomena about compact line and DT line comparison... see attached link below. Have you guys noticed that longer line always require heavier grain weight to load properly? see Rajeff sports' chart... Same rod, shooting head always recommend lighter grain weight? do anyone know why?

    http://www.rajeffsports.com/spey_chart.pdf

    [​IMG]
     
  7. yuhina

    yuhina Tropical member

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    well... gentlemen...

    All good points... we can get into those detail one by one... but now I am tying flies for tomorrow's fishing trip... so maybe you guys can having some fun first...

    One more thing to say before I open another beer...

    Over years, I have been really grateful to have this forum to learn on. Moderate a forum is a art form in execute, Chris and other moderators has been working their magic to make this place a fantastic place to play. I have to mention that again.

    Further, a good discussion and debating is actually a really fun to watch or anticipate. We don't need to agree to each other, and I never did expect people to agree with me. However, a good debating should be based upon a good reasoning and a good logic... I remember there is one time I told Trevor in the PM. I understand there are not many people get the scientific training... so sometime I have to just lay back and enjoy the mud fight... But overall I think this forum has been very good to me.

    Mark
     
  8. fisshman26

    fisshman26 Member

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    No teasing Mark, and anyone who knows me will tell you that I am no college professor but I sure as hell am familiar with hammers and if you think that you expend the same energy with a light or heavy hammer over a day of let's say framing.......well then maybe I could be a college professor.
     
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  9. g_smolt

    g_smolt Recreational User

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    The line may be lighter in grain weight, but grain:length ratio makes the shooting heads heavier in grains per foot.
     
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  10. TrevorH

    TrevorH Active Member

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    It would be a mistake to think that someone with little to say about operating in the physical world necessarily lacks an understanding of it, as their "gift" may in fact be the clear, easy performance of understanding, not the articulation of it, which is far more useful in a forum than it is in the real world. Out there, that quiet someone might show you who knows what.
     
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  11. yuhina

    yuhina Tropical member

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    Hi Bruce,
    What really surprises me is when you start to talk like an adult, it actually has a lot of things interesting to discuss. As I said earlier... there are a lot of things we can learn from each other... why always pretend you are a chomp caster? Are there too little room to share some knowledge in this forum? How many times you explain the basic here to the beginners... or here is just another campfire for you looking for teasing people...
    This is not a teaser Bruce. This is something to think what to bring to this forum.

    Mark
     
  12. yuhina

    yuhina Tropical member

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    It is! GS

    This more "compact" character is the reason making them require less totally weight to load properly...
     
  13. yuhina

    yuhina Tropical member

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    Trevor,

    I agree.
    I never assume people has less knowledge in one thing is related how much they can provide "useful information" on another side...this knowledge or experience also is "independent" to the ability and attitude. No need to do a name calling here... we all know who come here try to help out others, and who come here just for the show... We also know who has more positive energy and who has grumpy and ranting character.

    I have said this enough... we come here for different purposes... whether for educational information or for entertaining's sake... both are all good for me. I never assume anything and quiet frankly, I am too busy to interact with new friends in this site than worry about people don't understand what I have said...In fact, I have a lot of respect to people that willing to share and discuss their own experiences. This is a diverse world and the diverse experiences is what make this place interesting...

    Remember one time you called me nuttier than squirrel's poop? I was so excited to learn that! :D
    looking for positive things is what I learn from my friends here...

    Mark
     
  14. TrevorH

    TrevorH Active Member

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    The squirrel bit is a good one, Mark. I hope you have lots of fun with it!
     
  15. SSPey

    SSPey Member

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    Mark, about the PM, good the misunderstanding here was cleared up.I am really not interested in getting into the weeds about every detail of line design, been there, but these days with stellar line choices on the market, not needing to make my own anymore, I'm not interested in an internet session about it. Enjoy the thread.