Steelhead mortality

Discussion in 'Steelhead' started by generic, Nov 24, 2011.

  1. generic

    generic Justified

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2010
    Messages:
    4,984
    Likes Received:
    1,748
    Huh? I'd hope so, unless it was an accident. Didn't know you could fish a fly with a barb anywhere. <- where wild fish had to be released.
     
  2. Charles Sullivan

    Charles Sullivan dreaming through the come down

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2005
    Messages:
    3,229
    Likes Received:
    1,477
    Location:
    bellingham wa
    Home Page:
    How many of the skagit fish thatwere caught in the genetic study last year died before spawning? When I was at the presentation last year, I remember that it was 1or 2 fish. Of course my memory has been diminished by my lifestyle.

    Go Sox,
    cds
     
  3. Smalma

    Smalma Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2004
    Messages:
    3,724
    Likes Received:
    2,320
    Location:
    Marysville, Washington
    The 10% hooking mortality for released steelhead used on the wet side of the State is just another example of how assuring that any errors in the management of steelhead populations was on the side of the fish can significantly limit fishing opportuntiies.

    Does any one else see the irony of the same folks demanding conservative management crying about lost opportuntiies as the result of that conservative management.

    Tight lines
    Curt
     
  4. Andrew Lawrence

    Andrew Lawrence Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2007
    Messages:
    736
    Likes Received:
    103
    Location:
    Bellingham, WA
    I believe that 1 died while it was being handled. Otherwise, 1 other did not reappear after it was last recorded in the area around the mouth of the Suiattle River.
     
  5. Charles Sullivan

    Charles Sullivan dreaming through the come down

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2005
    Messages:
    3,229
    Likes Received:
    1,477
    Location:
    bellingham wa
    Home Page:
    I understand your point. However, my point is that no other action has been taken except to limit sporties.

    NONE, ZERO, ZILCH.

    For this reason, I think that the listing was a mistake on the part of sporties. In particular flyfishermen have been most effected, because its our season that was cut. The hatcheries remain. The old ass bio.'s and their underlings will continue to see the situation through the old perspective but the reality remains that if the grand total of 300 fish (5% of 6000 skagit fish) are killed by a C%R season is too much then the unknown impact of the hatchery must be far too much. What about the native net fishery for the hatch. fish? Why do we fund hatcheries on the Nook and Skagit that requires a restriction on sport fishing, although not on native netting, to exist?
    In the end sport fishemen and flyfishermen in particular are the only user groups restricted. Oddly, we are the only ones who care. Honestly do the others care? Tribes? by their actions the answer is no. Developers?...no. Gravel and gold Miners on the Samish, S.Fork nooksack etc?...clearly no.
    Although I understand the reason why we have no seasons, I gotta tell you, I am pissed off by the lack of action by the state and fed.'s regarding the listing. They didn't even stop the rediculous gold miners on the S.Fork Nooksack. Public apathy does not detract from the lack of care demonstrated by both the state and the Fed's.

    So what else have either the fed.'s or state done, other that restrice the very user goup who cares?

    Go Sox,
    cds
     
  6. Smalma

    Smalma Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2004
    Messages:
    3,724
    Likes Received:
    2,320
    Location:
    Marysville, Washington
    Charles -
    I agree that the ESA listing was a mistake. It has been obvious for year's that the factors limiting Puget Sound steelhead has been production issues - freshwater habitat and poor marine survival. Further it was equally clear that any listing would be ineffective in addressing those issues. That left only things like harvest and hatchery reform to worked on which of course limits mainly the recreational fishers without doing much for the future of the resource.

    It remains my opinion that we anglers have no one to blame but ourselves for this situation. Most anglers were to apathic to get involved and the remained used the current PS steelhead status as an opportunities to use pseudo science to advance a social agenda - that was CnR/WSR fisheries. It is now a little late to be crying about the outcome.

    There could be an opportunity to address some of your concerns if the Feds were to re-consider what allowable fishing impacts could be allowed on individual PS steelhead stocks. As part of such a process would an evaluation of the various factors (inlcuding hooking mortality) going into the determination of any new allowable impacts. In theory that could be done by an individual or a group but I seriously doubt the feds would look at any proposal that did not address the whole area as well the whole determination of those impacts. Because of the desire to perform any evaluation on the whole the best course for putting forth a "plan" for new allowable impacts would be from the co-managers. I do not see any relief coming in that direction for at least a decade, maybe several decades or potentially never.

    In the mean time we get to live with what we wanted.

    Tight lines
    Curt
     
  7. Charles Sullivan

    Charles Sullivan dreaming through the come down

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2005
    Messages:
    3,229
    Likes Received:
    1,477
    Location:
    bellingham wa
    Home Page:
    It seems highly logical to me that poor marine survival and the constant and consistant influx of hatchery smolts are connected.

    The X that marks the hex here is that no agency has taken any other action but to restrict sport fishing. Part of this is apathy, the other is that we haven't had enough retirments at the upper levels. Organizational inertia dicatates that dogmas remain the same (see sentence #1).

    Go Sox,
    cds
     
  8. Jim Darden

    Jim Darden Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2004
    Messages:
    1,247
    Likes Received:
    454
    Location:
    Bellingham, Wa.
    Charles.....loved your comment!!!....the typical netting (or electroshock)tagging/measuring operation is a lot more traumatic than a simple catch and release. Maybe we should ban these studies by WDF.....
     
  9. generic

    generic Justified

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2010
    Messages:
    4,984
    Likes Received:
    1,748
    No kidding....cause getting zapped stresses every muscule in your body. And basically, that's all a fish is - one big muscule. :ray1:
     
  10. freestoneangler

    freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2006
    Messages:
    7,800
    Likes Received:
    2,729
    Location:
    Ruby Valley, MT
    iagree If you plan to keep any fish, knock them stiff. Do not leave them gasping on the bank or hooked to a stringer.

    As for C&R mortality, really hard to say for sure. If we're only considering single, barbless flies, in typical water temps, and reasonably quick to hand, gentle handling, I would say 1% or less. I think temperature plays a larger factor than extended time on the line or harder than usual handling -- but that's just my opinion based on what I've experienced. About 5 years ago, I floated the Big Hole in late August the last day the river was open to fishing. Water flows were really low and temps were up. I did not net any of the fish caught that day, rather turned the hook w/forceps while they were in the water. Two fish that day did not survive even with quick catch and release...I buttoned things up and simply enjoyed a row down the river after that.
     
  11. Charles Sullivan

    Charles Sullivan dreaming through the come down

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2005
    Messages:
    3,229
    Likes Received:
    1,477
    Location:
    bellingham wa
    Home Page:
    I have no problem with studies being done. The Skagit DNA study was excellent. The defacto C&R study that was done with it was even more telling though. In fact fruther studies using radio transmitters could be quite helpful in determining what the major causes of mortality are in the sound. I honestly think that the department leader don't care. It may lead to some uncomfortable conclusions and actions.

    Go Sox,
    cds
     
  12. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2001
    Messages:
    8,428
    Likes Received:
    4,404
    Location:
    Sedro Woolley, WA, USA.
    The last department public meeting I went to they readily admitted they had no idea what happens to steelhead from the time they leave the river on. They also said that steelhead are not making it out of the sound to the open ocean. Something is happening to them in the sound. Sounds like a local issue to me, not an ocean one, and I think you are correct, they don't want to know.
     
  13. Rich Simms

    Rich Simms Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2003
    Messages:
    248
    Likes Received:
    66
    Location:
    Occupy Hearings!
    Charles, Thanks for clarifying. It seems the only psuedo science going on is the political wills of leadership misguiding the science in the agencies. IMO, this in turn is the continuing loss of public faith to manage the resource for the long term. Many of the management schemes seem to be reactive once something goes south rather than proactive to be preventative. But, again, this is my Internet opinion :)
     
  14. Ringlee

    Ringlee Doesn't care how you fish Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2005
    Messages:
    1,830
    Likes Received:
    50
    Location:
    Somewhere you don't know about, WA
    You cannot electrofish adult Salmonids. The electricity can explode their spinal cord and effects adult fish more than juveniles.

    As for the Skagit Study, that is an exceptional Catch & Tag mortality rate, if 1 fish dies. Natural Pre-spawn mortality is higher than that.

    The Skagit Study is between Seattle City Light, Skagit Co-op, Skagit Tribes, and WDFW with funding by NOAA.

    Are you saying that biologists and regular anglers have the same C&R Mortality rate and handling skills?
     
  15. Charles Sullivan

    Charles Sullivan dreaming through the come down

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2005
    Messages:
    3,229
    Likes Received:
    1,477
    Location:
    bellingham wa
    Home Page:
    I found it remarkable that so few fish dies. After all a radio transmitter the size of a flashlight battery was shoved down their throat. I gotta believe that the average angler can be less damaging to a fish than that. Kudos to the team of samplers for having such a low mortality rate. Very impressive.

    Go sox,
    cds