Discussion in 'Steelhead' started by Matt Burke, Mar 15, 2012.
LBC, what size and color bead?
I went to the Methow this weekend and only caught one fish that was dark.
More worth protecting, more regulations.
I agree with you and think they have a tougher job here in WA trying to protect all the runs - it's much more complicated than in VA. Then again - OR seems to do ok in terms of the simplicity of their regs. Still - much less complicated.
I think a very helpful tool would be a published list of regulations overlaid on a map. A lot of people don't know where specific creeks are that designate changes to the regs. For someone exploring new rivers it's often hard to find the demarcation points that indicate regulation changes.
I wouldn't mind spending $5 on a reg pamphlet that made it easier to understand. I seriously do want to obey all the laws - but sometimes they make it damn hard and confusing.
wouldn't just not stocking these rivers be a better idea than these stupid mandatory kill fisheries?
You don't understand. These waters haven't been open to steelheading for many years. Could "stupid mandatory kill" be a gauge of your intellect?
perhaps you don't understand the goal of the fishery, to kill as many hatchery fish as possible... This of course leads to sillyness like folks fin clipping wild steelhead so others can harvest them and other dumb things. How about just not stocking brats in the first place?
The data WDFW uses to justify stocking the river with hatchery fish suggests that the survival rate of smolts is higher when there are more smolts present. Not stocking the river would increase mortality on the wild smolts.......
Like complex issues, there is a lot more to the matter than simply not stocking the Methow with hatchery fish. There are some groups, co-managers even that are very much for hatchery supplementation and have court mandated rights for harvest. You also have BPA and mid Columbia PUD mitigation requirements that are in force. You have ESA issues to be dealt with. And then you have differing survival rates on an annual basis. On years when survival is low, it can be argued that hatchery supplementation is needed to help maintain/recover the stock. When survival is high, then you have surplus hatchery fish that that are deemed unnecessary and even harmful to natural fish recovery. Yeah, it seems like a Catch-22 situation, which leads to my first comment about this being a complex situation.
It is all a moot point now anyway as it looks like it might close soon though nothing has been posted on WDFW's emergency regulation page.
Apparently you don't understand a few things. The Methow River is upstream of NINE (9) - count 'em! - mainstem Columbia River dams that on average used to kill 5 to 15% of the downstream migrating smolts at EACH dam. That means that only a small percentage - do the math - of the smolt population had a chance of reaching the ocean. So these steelhead and salmon runs were going extinct. The mainstem PUD dams have made significant passage improvements, but still have a ways to go at 2 or 3 of the dams. And the Corps of Engineers dams (McNary, John Day, Dalles, and Bonneville) still need to step up and improve juvenile fish passage quite a bit.
The upshot is that if no hatchery steelhead were stocked, the runs would no longer exist. Because of all this hatchery stocking that you don't seem to understand, the possibility no exists to recovery naturally spawning populations of wild steelhead and salmon descended from these hatchery plants.
Simple solutions would seem to work best for simpletons, but they don't work out so well in real life complex situations. It would serve you well to understand that before you speak up next time with your simple suggestion for an issue that you don't know anything about. I wouldn't rail on you so hard, but this isn't the first time you've suggested useless solutions to real world problems you apparently didn't bother to learn anything about first. Remember what they tried to teach you in school about putting brain in gear before engaging mouth.
I agree. I think much confusion arises due to the disorganization of the rules pamphlet. Some sort of map overlay and an internet tool with searchable parameters based on location,dates, species etc would go a long way towards easing the confusion.
It is a complex situation, thanks for the concise explanation of some of the problems involved.
Well that makes some sense....
what broodstock do they use?
Brood is collected at Wells Dam, which is, below the Methow, Okanogan, and Silmilkameen rivers. A combination of natural and hatchery origin brood is collected. More recently, a locally-adapted NOR broodstock program is being developed on the Twisp River (Methow trib) and in the Okanogan River.