Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by spicolli140, Nov 4, 2011.
I think your reply missed my point entirely. I am not arguing regarding the use/non-use of beads or any other kind of "fly".
My point was simply that the wording that was used to "attack" the river and its occupants might best be reserved in how to address our enemies (such as the taliban, as an example), as opposed to the rivers and fish we mutually care for and respect.
@ Topwater: ROTFLMFAO!!! You made my day!!!Bless You!!!:thumb:
For real? This thread has gone from mildly entertaining to stupid as fuck....
I think you need to rethink this. I fail to see how video gaming has anything to do with fishing. In addition, I feel my generation is one of the best in terms of conservation and respecting the resource. The Internet has bestowed knowledge upon us from the get go that many fisherman 20 years ago would have no clue about unless they were directly involved with a conservation group, or worked in the field. If there is ever a generation to see the more complete picture its people my age. How much did you know about fish conservation when you were 20 years old? Its gonna be pretty damn hard for my generation to fuk things up any worse then what has been done in the last 50 years eh?
I think we need to worry alot more about special interest groups still (hydropower, logging, agriculture, commercial fishing) then we need worry about young bead fisherman.
In addition to that, I have yet to meet a fly fisherman my own age who has horrible on river practices. It seems we are all a bunch of fuckin fish huggers, despite our backgrounds and how we were raised. I understand bead fishing wasnt really the norm "back in the glory days", and that it may be frustrating to some people who have not spent time trying it out to see what it is really about.
I also agree with people who are saying that nymphing is a much more engaging way of fishing then swinging. Swinging is very mellow, and methodical with a huge reward, but it seriously lacks in technical fishing. (sure there are certain situations where swinging can be technical too) All together though I feel like the actual FISHING of nymphs to be more challenging. Your constantly stack mending, dead drifting, and managing your line. Then, add to that your fishing to what the fish are actually eating, so your catch rate improves....
hmmm... fish the boring way that catches "less" fish
or fish the fun technical way the catches "more" fish
either way you are taxing the resource, but your impacts can be negated by running the right gear, fighting fish fast, and making safe releases. same as swinging.
Beading isnt about instant gratification similar to getting a headshot in a video game, trust me I do both... its not the same at all, there is no comparison. Beading is simply a method developed to catch fish effectively in challenging conditions (low fish counts, crowded rivers, etc).
I also feel that you may have takin the idea of "attacking" the river out of context. I can see how steelhead fishing is very much like a tactical military attack. Early morning starts, long hikes, sneaking along the bank, aquiring a target, firing, with an end result of a fight and a kill (HATCHERY FISH).
I hope this post helps somehow, though im not sure it will.
Lots of things in this world have a coolometer associated with it. Fly fishing and steelheading are among them. Trolling (or "harling" for purists) a fly behind my boat or float tube on a lake is an effective way to catch trout, but it's a long ways down the coolometer compared to taking a trout on a fly that is cast and retrieved or one on the surface on a dry fly. I'm not above fishing low down the coolometer, but usually I like to fish as high on the coolometer as I feel has a reasonable chance of being successful. I don't do it because I think I'm cool for having done so; I do it because it yields a greater degree of satisfaction. I like to extract as much satisfaction as I can from my day's fishing.
If you've done it all, it's not a stretch at all. And there is no affront. See above paragraph regarding satisfaction.
I'm pretty sure I get "it," but I probably don't get you. If steelhead fishing was about catching steelhead, period, I would fly fish for steelhead only when I thought it will outproduce any and all other methods. Is that what you do? Impose no personal limitations on yourself? If it was all about the body count, I'd use blasting caps, gillnets, rotenone, or anything I thought I could get away with, because, after all, if I believed as you do, it's about catching fish, period. But that's not what it's about for me. I derive more personal satisfaction by fishing under a series of self-imposed limitations that still allow me to achieve an acceptable level of angling success.
BTW, no cigars for me (see cigar thread), occasional slngle malt, but I'm no afficianado, and no grandchildren yet. As for chicas, no problem; they like us guys with a touch of gray. They think we have more money, make sex last longer than 40 seconds, and less likely to get 'em pregnant.
I'm surprised to read you saying it's all the same delivery, unless you simply mean it's all done with a fly rod. Because the delivery and presentation varies considerably, and as I'm sure you know, that counts for quite a lot.
You're not making sense. If you're only going to take your "A" game with you when steelheading, then most days and most places you won't be fly fishing. If you restrict yourself to sportfishing, you'll choose bait, beads, other artificial lures, nymphs, with a swung fly last on your list the vast majority of the time. Fly fishing for steelhead, by definition, is an act of imposing a degree of limitation on your fishing effort.
Sorry these discussions drive you crazy. I suggest you drop a hit of acid and re-read all these threads. In an altered state of consciousness you may find an entirely new universe of understanding - about steelheading and everything else in your life as well.
Who says steelhead don't eat eggs? I didn't read that anywhere. No offense, but I'd objectively say I'm far closer to being 100% clued in than I am to being 100% clueless. Not that I know it all by any stretch; but I do know a coupla' things about this game.
As for leaving your buddy alone, this isn't about picking on him. Rather it's an attempt to expose him to a broader awareness. And face it, when you post on the www, the only limits on feedback are those imposed by the website owner.
The bottom line is that as the resources have diminished, and opportunity has decreased via closures on other regional rivers, the last remaining runs of Wild Steelhead are being overfished and often with very aggressive methods. Catch and Release fishing does have a mortality factor, and the more fish that get hooked and played then the more fish that are going to die as a result of that activity. It does not seem like the majority of regional anglers are willing to limit themselves, or to limit their own impacts, without some oversight from the managers. The pattern here has been to fish wild runs of anadromous fish down to the point that escapements repeatedly fail, and then to fish and harvest on those runs some more, until the whole thing gets shut down. And this has been the example on river by river, and run by run, throughout the region. Someday all of the fishing will be closed and then we can all be friends. or not.
Salmo I'm not in any position to tell you anything about steelhead, that comment wasn't directed at you my friend.
Spicolli got a fish he's excited. He has many humbling years ahead of him as do the rest of us. And the river will teach him all the lessons if he is willing to put in the time. That first fish was exciting but won't touch the thrill he is sure to find on his own somewhere down the line. I'll leave you all to debate as you were. I have flies to tie while my daughter is napping.
Okay, I can take it. I'm the WFF winner of the worst forum communicator award winner ever! I'm okay with that. Really!
I think it's time we all re-read each others posts in their entirety so that we all have a better understanding of what each of us is REALLY trying to say and then have a great big group hug!
Oh, I forgot to congratulate you Spicolli on your first steelhead. You'll never forget it, nor have I forgotten my 1st one. It was taken on the Green River in about 1962 or 1963 on a big gob of eggs and a Spin and Glow! Used a Mitchell 300 reel and a glass rod. Shame on me. But I was a proud puppy and still am.
And Dustin, your points are well taken, really I mean that. My generation (against the will of many of us - much of the late 60's sit-ins and demonstrations were as much about saving the environment as anything else) has done a great deal of damage, just as the one that came before mine. But I have not knowingly (read Triggs' comments on C & R mortality) killed a trout or steelhead in nearly a quarter of a century. There's more to it than that, I know, but I try to do my part. Sorry about the lame video game comment - I was trying to make a point (poorly) about the use of the word "attacking" our limited resources, and the inherent lack of respect for the resource that might imply.
And Chris B; Thank you for setting me straight - your last post had me laughing.
Spicolli - congrats to you again, and may there be many more in the years to come.
Respectfully again, Greg
this is well said
glad to see some people get it...
I think you and I agree, just maybe not on the "terminology". The coolometer only matters if you care what others think.
Maybe it should be called the "satisfaction-o-meter", then I would agree completely with what you say. I have come upon a run, knowing I will catch a fish bouncing a big ugly...but would rather see if I can get them on the swing first - way more fun and/or satisfying.
The original post came across like you're a @#!*% bag or something, fishing other than swinging. That's insecure talk there.
That being said, some don't think that catching a fish on the swing is as rewarding. I don't think there is a person alive, that has actually caught a steelie on the swing, that would think any other method is more exciting. I have caught fish both bouncing and on the swing. The two don't compare. However, if catching fish means the difference between bouncing a bug and catching fish, vs swinging an intruder and not (or at least very low, low odds)...HELLO big Ugly!
Note to self. If you are lucky enough to catch a steelhead tell nobody...
I know of five steelhead landed today and NOT ONE on a bead, so assuming that the bead is all that works good enough to guide with is dead wrong, fact every method/bug/secret creature has its timeframe of best productivity so whats the big beef about fishing what works good when its working...
If all steelhead were caught on black bunny would some be arguing that its not right either?
For myself the swing is the finest/funnest way to catch steelhead hands down, add a custom self tye and its extra rewarding. But that does not mean that the other presentations are wrong in doing or wrong for the fish.
Not true, just don't tell "where and how".
By the way spicolli, congrats on your first!