Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by spicolli140, Nov 4, 2011.
+1. there are a number of folks here whose posts i like to read whether i agree with them or not. i think salmo_g's position on this whole thing still seems like it's premise is a concept that is undefined and arbitrary ("the player"), but i like his stuff cause beyond the shaky premise (all due respect, sg) his argument is pretty cogent and he's knowledgeable and interesting. more of that, less of the insults and ridiculous unexamined prejudice.
Glad you and a few others are enjoying the discussion, as am I. Please go back and read my definition, premise, if you will, of the steelhead that is a player. I don't know how I could describe it any more succinctly or clearly. Yes, it is arbitrary (but not capricious!), but it's logical. If you tell me what is lacking in definition, I'll elaborate if I can.
Not at all. You have shared your opinion about a dozen times in this thread, thats my opinion. This is the 2nd or 3rd swing/bead banter in the last couple weeks. This one didn't even start as such. (Buckiller had his coming) Some dude caught his first steelhead, instead of saying, right the fu*k on, it ends up like this. This is an arguement that will never be resolved. At this piont, I think there should be a catagory under the spey clave tab called Bead-vs-Swing and everyone can duke it out there.
Steelhead = Uber ales any method, position, or climate so your Yugo/Porsche analogy doesn't jive. Maybe the difference in a tuned 996 vs. a Bellevue granny in her poseur automatic Boxster to some, but I don't recon so.
My last summer steel this year, by far my craziest freshwater fish ever hooked, was on a bead and it treated the run like it was a Grindline skatepark. I'm not sure what happened really, but there was a 360's, a couple of backflips, a front flip to fakie, some sort of 540 tailwhip thingy, in the middle a huge ollie in which he stalled and called me a tete du merde whatever that is, before finishing with a long nose grind and sawing me off in the rocks. Yugo my ass :rofl:
Some of you guys are so uptight! Try something new this weekend. Lick the wifes ass, try one of those Vietnamese sandwiches with the super super mystery meat, something, for fucks sake live a little!
yeah, but that was all done fakie.
Single best thing ever posted in any bead debate ever.
You should have downed a tall frosty one or taken a healthy pull for typing that Tenkara word...shit, I did it too, pull coming!
Oh my goodness!
Totally agree Evan.
wow you guys get bent around the smallest stuff.
ya know i think its the snaps when i see some fishing folks who get it. in this case your 1st steelhead. dead nuts dude.
remember my 1st on a fly. actually i was 1 for 4 that day. having only my old cortland fly reel with NO drag at all. 3 fish ripped me clean, but got the last one.
dont let these knobs bring ya down. GO and fish your ass off and have fun. thats what its all about.
Been steelheading the last few days...
On the swing: 5
On the bead: 0
both got some time in the water. Both provided hours of good times. But only one brought the nibs.
sg, maybe it comes down to this: why do fish strike a swung fly? if it's ever because they think they are having a meal, it seems to me your definition falls to pieces. i will paraphrase cause i'm lazy: "a player is a fish that will strike the next properly presented fly/lure/bait that it sees." until this point, which fish is a player is unknowable by your definition. but then you add this: "only a player will take a swung fly". but again by your own definition, the player would take a bead, and one must be inclined to think that it takes a bead for food. if it then turns and takes a swung fly for food, how is it really different from a fish that will take only eggs for food? it's just feeding.
"....but with less wild fish available and lots of hatchery fish along with higher rates of fishing pressure there are less "players" available for more anglers."
Exactly. And that's where restraint and style meet - the very crux of this discussion. How do we approach the resource, with what intent, and to what degree will we agree to accept methods, technique, equipment, and other factors that can further affect the return of native, wild fish. That's a whole lot of agreeing to get done while the clock is ticking.
First, apologies to those who are troubled by the hijacking of this thread. However this is the www, and discussions routinely have a tendency to wander. Some of us find the wandering interesting enough to continue.
I think Mr. Bellows addresses your point really well. Unlike resident trout, steelhead have no biological requirement to feed during their freshwater spawning migration. Feeding by steelhead is all but a non-issue in our pursuit, so it's not relevant to the definition of a player. Also, I'm not inclined to think that a steelhead takes a bead only as "food." I mentioned that in previous posts and hope to avoid circular discussion if possible.
Thanks for posting that link. I'd forgotten it, and Bill's article should be on the list of required reading for everyone who aspires to fly fish for steelhead.
You've captured the essence again - where restraint and style meet. Good catch.