Summer Steel Caught today

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by TallFlyGuy, Jul 14, 2006.

  1. Steelie Mike

    Steelie Mike Active Member

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    Inland the fish was not caught on the EF as you mentioned. It was an early summer on another not so secret river. Tallflyguy tailed it for me somewhere else. I just thought you should know. Thanks for coming out:thumb: .
     
  2. Steelie Mike

    Steelie Mike Active Member

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    Bill what I meant by increasing the biomass deals with adding an additional food source to the streamside environment. Dead salmon and steelhead carcasses contribute to both the streamside and aquatic ecosystems. The dead fish provide food for the streamside vegetation that helps to keep the river temperature down and prevent erosion. The carcasses also provide food for bears and other mammals, juvenile salmonids, birds and insects. At this point you can apply the local food chain and see who eats what. So yes streamside gutting is good.
     
  3. Salmo_g

    Salmo_g Active Member

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    Bigbill,

    No, I don't think wild steelhead have gone the way of the dodo. There is plenty of evidence of viable wild steelhead populations in western WA. The problem is that they are small and tend to range in number from below the spawning escapement goal to slightly above it. Consequently there are few harvestable (in terms of population surplus production) wild steelhead in most rivers in most years. That is why the regulations require either wild steelhead release, or catch and release seasons on the better populations. Debate continues as to whether harvestable wild steelhead still are available on the OP rivers, but WDFW has decided there are some, and anglers may take one wild steelhead per year from one of those rivers.

    Steelhead are a resilient species, and their populations will increase in response to conditions affecting fresh water and marine surival. Populations will persist well into the future, but they will not recover to 1850 population levels because habitat conditions are not going to recover to 1850 levels, nor to 1960 or 1970 levels for that matter. However, sustainable populations can occur at the lower levels supported by present habitat conditions in many rivers. A few may go extinct in smaller river basins, but most won't anytime in the foreseeable future.

    Hatcheries will be around as long as there is a demand for harvestable steelhead, as natural populations will not likely ever again support significant harvests due to the combined effects of an increasing human population and decreasing amount of wild steelhead habitat. Keeping hatchery fish up to allowable limits does not threaten the future supply of hatchery steelhead. Hatcheries only need about 5% of the adult steelhead return to meet their broodstock needs, and if the steelhead are in short supply, WDFW closes sections of rivers near the hatchery racks until such time as the broodstock needs are met. You can retain the hatchery steelhead you catch with a clear conscience.

    Sincerely,

    Salmo g.
     
  4. Josh Benjamin

    Josh Benjamin Member

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    tallflyguy...nice fish, nice rod, nice photo.
    i'm jealous...hatchery fish, nate, blood, no blood, adipose fine, no adipose fin, dead or alive, whatever.

    to everyone else...where did this thread run off to???
    gosh, he's lucky he didn't catch it with a nymph and indicator rig, then the sh_t really would hit the fan. actually no it wouldn't have cuz it was a hatchery brat so it doesn't matter.
    :beathead:
    relax, go fishing.
    :beer2:
     
  5. troutfanatic

    troutfanatic A day not spent wasted is.....wasted.

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    I am willing to wait....and I am not even of the generation that F-ed it up for the rest of us.
     
  6. BigBill

    BigBill Banned or Parked

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    Interesting, I will have to research this more. Everything I have read on the subject condemns riverside gutting, citing the spread of whirling disease and various other bad micro organisms that could infest its aquatic life, especially trout.
     
  7. Salmo_g

    Salmo_g Active Member

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    Bigbill,

    That's possibly true with respect to rivers and areas where WD occurs - altho the pathogen is water born, so it seems like little, if any, additional risk occurs by adding potentially infected fish guts.

    Sincerely,

    Salmo g.
     
  8. Red Shed

    Red Shed "junkyard spey"

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    SteelieMike,

    A little smiley face after your comment might have conveyed better what you are saying.

    Not everyone reading this may have gone back and picked up that you said to give the fish away.

    Bonking all the "brats" you catch and giving them away is one thing but gutting a "brat" and leaving it in the river is unlawful waste of a gamefish and if you do that you deserve a ticket whether it will add to the biomass or not. Your statment most certainly did not appear to be a joke.
     
  9. Steelie Mike

    Steelie Mike Active Member

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    It is funny how someone always reads a little too deeply into a someones post. Yeah my sarcasm did not come off to well but you got to be kidding. If you are going to attack someone on the board then at least make sure you read everything. Some people just do not have a life.

    I am sorry if my sarcasm offended anyone :).
     
  10. Red Shed

    Red Shed "junkyard spey"

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    Well I don't know who you think attacked you. I read everything you wrote several times and could find nothing that would make me believe you were joking. You are right about one thing, your sarcasm didn't come off well.
     
  11. Steelie Mike

    Steelie Mike Active Member

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    Shed, Inland even brought up a picture of a native I put in the gallery last May. It had nothing to do with this topic. He then went ahead and tried to imply where I caught it. He does not bother to explain himself in his post for people who do not know what he is talking about. He was also wrong in implying that I caught it in the East Fork. If he did not mean to target me then he would not have brought up something that did not have anything to do with this specific discussion at hand.

    [​IMG]
    I look forward to doing buisness with you:cool: .
     
  12. inland

    inland Active Member

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    SteelieMike,

    The only reason you were able to catch that wild fish is entirely due to the hatchery fish that are available. Thats all. In my second post I also said that I fish out there (SWW) during the hatchery season. I don't head west to fish urban fisheries just to bonk brats.

    Does not matter which SWW stream you caught it from...nor do I care...they are all open for the same reason.

    I shouldn't have to address why increased reported hatchery kill tag card totals (or angler effort) affects the native populations. Killing hatchery fish from any of those tribs supports further depression of those native steelhead hanging on by a thread. Those killed fish are positive proof that the division is doing what the public wants. To be able to kill fish. If the public would band together and say no more skamies (or any hatchery releases) in the 2 or 3 SWW tribs that still have viable springer, summer, and fall runs of native steelhead because those natives are more important than putting meat on the table it might truly help those specific fish. Telling everybody to kill all brats and either discard or give away is going to help how?

    You are rightfully proud of that wild fish. They are a rarity today.

    When you said it was a joke I was done with it. Don't get irritated at me because of what you said. Assuredly I wasn't the only person to take it for face value and not a joke.

    Either way Poppy is unbeatable for doing business with.

    William
     
  13. Steelie Mike

    Steelie Mike Active Member

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    William I agree with you both in regards to Native fish as well as Poppy. I did not mean any disrespect to him, he proved to Justin (TallFly and I) what great customer service his shop has for all of us. That rod Justin used he purchased from him and he even loaned him rod after be broke the tip of another. Again I was trying to portray sarcasm with the little dude.

    As you know many of those rivers recycle fish after they are caught at the hatcheries. The NFL, Shougal, Kalama and Cow to name a few. They all get added up in the end. You may believe releasing them will prevent numbers to be tallied, but that is not what the guys at the hatcheries say. I do agree with you, but I still would take any opportunity to take a hatchery fish out of any system. Still I understand that viewpoint, but I think if we regained our native populations then we would end up loosing again by people killing natives. Look at the OP. The future looks bleak for our native fish.
     
  14. Red Shed

    Red Shed "junkyard spey"

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    Steelie Mike,

    If you, William, Justin, and/or some others were sitting in my shop or on my porch I wouldn't even raise an eyebrow at your provacitive statement. I would most likely say the same thing as I did in my post but I would listen to what you are saying and might even find some grounds for agreement with some of your thoughts.

    That being said there is a possibility that some readers are new here or new to steelhead fly fishing and may not be aware of all the naunces of the hatchery versus native steelhead issues that we discuss on an almost dailey basis. There is a possibility that upon reading your post a person could think "that dude must have slipped in a riffle and hit his head on a rock as he is talking pretty wild.":rolleyes:

    I see lots of people every year that are very excited because they caught a chromer. They do not give a damn whether it has an adipose fin or not. Peace and love from the left bank.

    Nice fish!