Summer Steelhead

Discussion in 'Steelhead' started by greaseliner, Feb 7, 2004.

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  1. Old Man

    Old Man Just an Old Man

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    Hey Flasher,I tried to teach you something but all you ever seem to catch is the trees,rocks,yourself. Did you ever catch anything this summer or did you go down to Pike Place Market and catch one of those flying Salmon.:p

    Let me know when you have some down time Via email and I'll see if we can connect up.

    Jim
     
  2. bugnuts

    bugnuts Member

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    Last year, I had the misfortune of observing the travesty on the upper Salmon River that Leland mentions. I had read all the magazine articles and brochures about the spectacular steelhead flyfishing that Stanley, Idaho offers...but what I heard and saw from the moment I arrived at the lodge was despicable.

    The guides from Ketchum would take their clients straight to the braided stretches of the stream full of spawning pairs on redds, and then come back to the lodge at lunch bragging about a dozen hookups, and I quote "...and only a couple were foul hooked." That first morning, I told our guide that if he took us within sight distance of any redds, he would be fired. He obliged but was visibly put off that he was actually going to have to work at finding some fish in holding water downstream.

    I think you guys that are bitching at each other are really not that far apart in your idea of right and wrong, at least as it relates to eastside summer runs. You both would have found what I observed to be truly disgusting, and you would've steered clear of the whole thing.
     
  3. greyghost

    greyghost Member

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    I totally agree 100%, bugnuts.
     
  4. keepemwild

    keepemwild Guest

    Hey, I'm not here to make internet buddies, especially with guys who dig ripping fish off redds. Greyghost, you obviously know about fishing. However, to say that there is no difference between hooking a Clearwater fish in October than in February is nonesense. During the fall, these fish have ample energy stores to get them through the winter months. In the spring, these energy stores have decreased to the point where the pretty much only have the energy for spawning. The last thing they need is some jerk harassing them.

    I guess you think that fishing for these tired fish in runs is okay because they're not on their redds yet. Well, where the hell do you think their going to be after they pass through that run. I guess a guy with your ethics would just fish for them right up until the point that they are hovering over their redds.

    Hey greyghost, you ought head over to the Clearwater this fall and do some homework of your own. You should tell some of the old timers there what you think of folks fishing for these awesome fish during their spawning months. You'd be lucky to make out of there without a scratch. Those that truly care and respect these fish pack it up by December and head somewhere else.

    I didn't know there were so many sensitive fisherman on this board. Sorry I wasn't as cordial as you would have liked for my first post. I didn't know this site was some sort of internet tea party.
     
  5. need2fish

    need2fish New Member

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    Keepemwild makes some good points, but needs to try to remain civil. If you are not here to "make internet buddies" then go somewhere else.

    Everytime we fish we risk killing a fish, period. We try to minimize this through barbless hooks, fishing with the right equipment, as to not play a fish to death, not targeting fish on redds....

    I am sure we have all had trout or smolts miss a dry with their mouths, and get hooked in the eye. When we fish we will unfortunately kill some fish. However, I am sure this is outweighted by our conservation efforts, patrolling the rivers looking for poachers, I mean fishing, and lobbying the State, etc.

    So let's have some tea!

    Andrew
     
  6. Scott Whited

    Scott Whited Member

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    first i have to start out by saying that i have no problem with keepemwild's postings. ( unless by keepemwild he means native which is not what the fish in the methow are.) but i actually found the original post to be thought provoking. it is the second post by greaseliner that really got this post ugly, by basically calling Ryan and I ( the other guy in the photos) unethical, and then providing a link on a site where Ryan has made a lot of friends. you obviously couln't wait to get your 14th post in to show what an antagonistic a**h*** you are. and then of course you let keepemwild take the heat for your finger pointing. your post greaseliner was definatly not made to inform or educate anyone but just to be a d**k and to trash Ryans site. That trip originally was supposed to be on the op but rain had blown the rivers on the coast out and this was a last second backup. To be completely honest i didn't know until recently that the columbia run steelhead are all summerrun fish. i assumed that since we were fishing in march that these would be winter runs. i have done very little steelhead fishing and am just starting to learn about it after a lifetime of other fishing, ( mostly for trout.) while we weren't fishing over reds i can understand keepemwilds concern and have to say that it has definatly made me think. i also would like to say that i'm sure Ryan appreciates having friends that will have his back when he is not around. there is something to be said for having good friends. i am not going to get into a back and forth ethics debate but thought i should say something since Ryan is out of the country on a fishing trip that most of us will only ever dream about.
    thanks, scott
     
  7. keepemwild

    keepemwild Guest

    Scott,
    Thanks for taking the time to consider what I'm trying to say. If you were fishing the Methow in March for what you thought were winter runs than that's an honest mistake - no hard feelings here. Welcome to steelhead fly fishing, its the best darn thing in the world.
     
  8. greyghost

    greyghost Member

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    keepemwild,
    sorry you keep missing my point...I should have been more clear. First, I have never participated in any spring steelhead fishery for summer runs. For that matter, I have never fished for summer run steelhead after early November. That is my personal choice and that, is where ehics come into play. Some would say that it is only ethical to fish for anadramous fish while still in the salt, some would say the estuaries, some would say mainstem river, some would say it's okay in spawning tribs as long as your not on spawning gravel, some are clearly immoral and actually fish on the redds. Besides the last option, it really is a personal choice where deemed legal. And while I do agree with you, who are you and I to draw the line for everybody else? My real problem with your post is that you have accused people on this site of "ripping off redds" which just isn't true. You also told Alpinetrout to "stay the *&^% of "your" water. Your approach was just ridiculous. If you want to make people think or change someones mind, maybe you could have cited a hooking mortality study in February as opposed to October, or discussed a particular kill fishery such as Leland and Bugnuts mentioned in their posts. An april kill fishery for wild steelhead is just an absolute shame. I am glad Scott was able to see through the debate and think about something constructive. Let's kill this thread and start off on a more positive or discussion type topic next time, where people can look at the facts and make personal desicions not be accused of something absurd.

    Regards, Pete
     
  9. BOBLAWLESS

    BOBLAWLESS New Member

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    Hey Keepemwild'

    I have a question for you which is not generated by any hostility whatsoever, just curiousity: would you be able to post on this site a few regulations of your own creation to address a problem about which you seem to have much feeling? These do not have to be river by river, but rather region by region? Would you spell out the difference between a summer and winter run fish and how this can be told in the winter months? Do you believe that Ryan was fishing on redds? Are the photos all you need to see?
    Are you from Idaho?

    Bob, the I just don't know for a fact, though I've got my opinions.:dunno
     
  10. FishPirate

    FishPirate New Member

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    Keepemwild,

    What do you think happens to these "ample energy stores" when you are playing your fish in November? Do you think that a fish that is hooked, played, landed and released in November is no worse off from the fight because it swims away from you? Ignorance is bliss. . .
     
  11. FishPirate

    FishPirate New Member

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    Leland,

    The Salmon River fishery between Stanley and Challis that you are referring to is LARGELY a hatchery fishery (same with the Pahsimeroi), and most of the folks are catch and release fishermen. Have you ever fished it?

    By the way, many of the steelhead that you released in October and November in the Snake didn't live long enough to spawn. . .
     
  12. keepemwild

    keepemwild Guest

    Bob,
    Great question. Rather than suggesting rules for the entire region, I'll just stick to the Ronde, Clearwater and Salmon for now (rivers which I am far more familiar with). Personally, I think it would be great to see these rivers close down to all fishing after Dec 31st. After this date, these fish should be left alone to do their spring spawning. Of course, it would be great to see the federal government enforce the Endangered Species Act and Clean Water Act in the Snake River Basin. But until that time I think we, as thoughtful fly anglers, ought to resist any temptations to fish for these summer runs in the spring. Having gone to college in Pullman and having lived in Ketchum, ID for awhile, I've grown very attached to these rivers and their fish. In regards to an earlier post, I have seen what goes on in the Stanley Basin during the spring. It's sickening. Fortunately, the vast majority of fisherman and guides from Ketchum and the surrounding area don't partake in it. There are a few bad eggs around there though can't resist the temptation and that is unfortunate. Trust me, they know how I feel about it.

    keepemwild - the sometimes confrontational, wild fish loving, steelhead fly angling addict, that really just wants this great resource to be protected for future generations to enjoy
     
  13. Mike Colagrossi

    Mike Colagrossi Whammo!

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    Here Here Pete,

    Mike
     
  14. keepemwild

    keepemwild Guest

    Fishpirate,

    What this really comes down to I guess is respect for these fish. We get a chance to fish for them in the fall when our sport has less of an impact (put simply: these fish can handle being caught and released in the fall when thier energy levels are high unlike the spring when thier energy levels have been nearly depleted). The spring is their time to complete their right of spawning. We live in an area with an abundance of fishing opportunities. There are plenty of other places we can go fish and have a great time where the fish aren't busy trying to spawn. Some of us still put the fish above our fishing in our list of priorities. I hope others will do the same.
     
  15. BOBLAWLESS

    BOBLAWLESS New Member

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    I just hate it when I ask six questions and only get one response.

    Bob, the Shortchanged:beathead
     
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