Super Glue

Discussion in 'Fly Tying' started by Jack Devlin, Jan 27, 2013.

  1. GAT

    GAT Dumbfounded

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    I called my brother who owns the hobby shop and asked if there is a thinner for CA glue. There isn't but he said what he does is simply add new thin CA glue to the stuff that is starting to thicken. You must stay with the same manufacturer of the adhesive but he says it works slick.

    He told me the stuff that removes CA glue doesn't work too hot to thin it.
     
  2. Tacoma Red

    Tacoma Red Active Member

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    Try:

    1) Acetone
    2) Heating slightly to remove saturated water...not to confident in this!
    3) DMSO (dimethyl sulfoxide) might work if you know someone who works in a research lab as well as for #'s 4-6.
    4) Xylene
    5) Tolulene
    6) Methyl Ethyl Ketone (MEK) or butanone.
    7) MAYBE ETHER ??? You can by this in a spray for helping to start engines.

    I have some CA that is getting very gummy and I'll try the acetone but I think the hydrolysis is irreversible. If the acetone doesn't work it's likely none of the other solvents will work well. Perhaps removing a blob of the glue on a nail and heating it with a lighter (outdoors...think napalm or neurotoxic cloud of smoke) might decrease the viscosity/elasticity. I still use it to glue but not so much in fly tying.

    In all honesty. Is best not to be messing around with these solvents as some are suspected or known carcinogens (#3-6).

    The LocTite Stick n Seal Extreme Conditions is the same as Ultra Gel (takes 5min to cure). I like this product and I use a hypodermic needle or tooth pick for small applications. HOWEVER, I am waiting for the UV curing resins to come down in price and then I'll transition.


    CA Properties from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanoacrylate

    Properties

    In its liquid form, cyanoacrylate consists of monomers of cyanoacrylate molecules. Methyl-2-cyanoacrylate (CH2=C(CN)COOCH3 or C5H5NO2) has a molecular weight equal to 111.1, a flashpoint of 79 °C, and a density of 1.1 g/ml.[3] Ethyl 2-cyanoacrylate (C6H7NO2) has a molecular weight equal to 125 and a flashpoint of >75 °C. To facilitate easy handling, a cyanoacrylate adhesive is frequently formulated with an ingredient such as fumed silica to make it more viscous or gel-like. More recently, formulations are available with additives to increase shear strength, creating a more impact resistant bond. Such additives may include rubber, as in Loctite's Ultra Gel, and/or unspecified additives, as in Instant Krazy Glue'sADVANCED Formula.
    In general, cyanoacrylate is an acrylic resin that rapidly polymerises in the presence of water (specifically hydroxide ions), forming long, strong chains, joining the bonded surfaces together. Because the presence of moisture causes the glue to set, exposure to moisture in the air can cause a tube or bottle of glue to become unusable over time. To prevent an opened container of glue from setting before use, it must be stored in an airtight jar or bottle with a package of silica gel. Another tactic is attaching a hypodermic needle on the opening of glue. After applying, residual glue soon clogs the needle, keeping moisture out. The clog is removed by heating the needle (e.g., by a lighter) before use.

    Solvents and debonders

    Acetone, commonly found in nail polish remover, is a widely available solvent capable of softening cured cyanoacrylate.[19] Other solvents include nitromethane, dimethyl sulfoxide, and methylene chloride.[20] gamma-Butyrolactone may also be used to remove cured cyanoacrylate.[21]Commercial debonders are also available.[22]

     
  3. Jack Devlin

    Jack Devlin Active Member

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    I'm starting to think about a return to just plain head cement/varnish and a dubbing needle which served me so well long before the super glues came along. Probably a lot safer to use.
    Will try the acetone ( I have some to thin SallyHansens) and see what happens but I may not be replacing the $4+ bottles of loctite any more.
    Jack
     
  4. jwg

    jwg Active Member

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    I have some CA that is getting very gummy and I'll try the acetone but I think the hydrolysis is irreversible. If the acetone doesn't work it's likely none of the other solvents will work well.


    Yes, once it starts to thicken up its going bad and its pointless to thin it, you're just thinning bad glue that will never be as strong as fresh glue.

    Acetone, unless coming from a freshly opened can, usually has a lot of water absorbed into it, so this is also bad for thinning glue that you want to use as glue, since the water in it will degrade the glue. Acetone is OK, and recommended, for helping soften cured glue you want to remove

    Buying it in tiny inexpensive tubes as suggested by Tacoma Red seems like a good strategy to me.
    Storage with a dessicant, as suggested by Silver, is also a sound plan.

    Jay
     
  5. kamishak steve

    kamishak steve Active Member

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    Most fly tying glues can be solvated with acetone. I just buy the cheapest superglue i can find at the hardware store, like 8 tiny bottles for 1.99 At taht price i don't feel compelled to thin it...
     
  6. Jack Devlin

    Jack Devlin Active Member

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    Good input and suggestions all. THanks
    Yesterday I found the Loctite glue I've become accustomed to for sale at Wally World for $2.49. That's a lot better than the over $4 I have been paying. For me, I find the little bottle with the brush is safer and more controllable to use.
    Jack