Swing sinktips deep

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by yuhina, Jan 3, 2011.

?

sinktip adjustment

  1. faster sink rate, same length

    14 vote(s)
    33.3%
  2. faster sink rate, longer length

    3 vote(s)
    7.1%
  3. same sink rate, longer length

    2 vote(s)
    4.8%
  4. change casting angle

    7 vote(s)
    16.7%
  5. change to heavy weighted fly

    10 vote(s)
    23.8%
  6. add weight to leader

    1 vote(s)
    2.4%
  7. others

    5 vote(s)
    11.9%
  1. Chris Johnson

    Chris Johnson Member: Native Fish Society

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    It depends on how the run is laid out but if I'm not feeling bottom at all, I'll change tips. I used to change my casting angle but for the reasons yard sale described I try to stay @ 90% or less. This is not etched in stone for me, cause every stuation is different, but I like to swim my fly across the run with some control, and I find casting farther up stream, I lose some of that control.
     
  2. Salmo_g

    Salmo_g Well-Known Member

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    Oh, the right way. What's the right way? Is there but one "right" way? I know a number of highly skilled steelheaders, and while we all fish similarly, there are differences in our styles, and no one particular style is more "right" than the other when it comes to fish caught.

    If you've never understood the casting angle deal, I'm guessing you didn't do much winter steelhead fishing when the fastest sinking fly lines were SA Hi-D or High Speed Hi-D, the later being roughly equivalent to a RIO type III. With one fly line doing 90+% of my winter fishing (no weighted flies on the single handed rods), line angle and line management was THE method for controlling the depth of fly presentation. A 15' tip at 90* to the current isn't moving any faster across current than the floating portion of the line that is being controlled by mending. I cannot say if it is right, only that hundreds of winter steelhead found it right enough.

    Faster water is often worth fishing because the steelhead that hold there often hit well. A half decent presentation to such fish can be 100% effective.

    Sg
     
  3. ralfish

    ralfish Active Member

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    With faster water you have to consider the effect of the current on the thicker, heavier tip. I prefer tips that aren't thicker than t-8,t-10 for this reason. Fatter line equals more surface area for stronger current to grab the line, negating any gains in a quicker sink rate. Unless, I switch out to a custom tip where the last couple feet near the fly line are mono. Reason: the thinner mono will cut through the faster surface water allowing the thicker heavier tip to get down to the slower bottom water.

    Another consideration is how far you are casting out. A wide, anything over say 80', that is fast will be tough to fish a fly through properly. Of course that is going to depend on the structure in the run. I see a lot of guys hero casting to the other side and making big swings irregardless of what the water is doing. Thats nice casting but usually ineffective fishing, if you arent properly working the structure and seams....

    If you are only needing to get out 40 ' or less, use a long leader of flouro( thinner for higher lb. test) and a heavy sparse fly ( if the water clarity allows) and lead the fly through the water with your rod, ala high stick nymphing. Not as romantic as the swung fly, but in fast water, more effective in getting down. Once you get further out, past high stick range, cast but dont swing your line tight to the fly. Keep stacking down stream mends to let the fly get down, without moving the fly, similar to a greased line presentation. Again, sparse, heavy flies are the ticket.

    Playing around with short bodied full sink or sink tip scandi heads on mono shooting lines will get you down in fast, deep water as well. The nice thing with these lines, is because of the shorter head, its easier keeping the mono shooting line off the water so you can more effectivley fish slower water on the other side of a fast rip, without having the fast water take off with your line...

    It all comes down to what you realy want to do. Sometimes its worth the time investment to fish water that most others go by. For sure it can be a challange, but in pressured water, it can be worth it, if you can figure out how to effectivley fish what is there with whatever method you enjoy
     
  4. yuhina

    yuhina Tropical member

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    ralfish,

    Interesting read!
    I have to agree this high sticking game, to me, has been VERY effective in trout fishing (not steelhead). But, I am not sure if this will work for steelhead though. I am a firm believer that good presentation is more important than distance, I could be happily swinging wetfly within 40 feet all day to get a good control. Like s_g mentioned earlier, the upstream cast angle always get the fly down very effective, I use it a lot for striper fishing in strong river current. But again, for winter steelheading, I am just not sure if this is the right way to do.

    Second method about "the short scandi sinking head" is a quiet interesting strategy to me. I can picture the mono running line are much easier to manage in the current. Imagine the short head become "a section of corkie/bobber" hang above the leader... but I was wondering if you lost the control when the fly swing toward the late half section...
     
  5. orangeradish

    orangeradish Eyes to the sky...

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    Yep. Pull it up a bit, and let it dead drift back down. Again, it's just what I've been told by jedis.
     
  6. Mark Horwath

    Mark Horwath Member

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    I like to take a few more steps down stream, then let it swing.If it does't feel like it's fishing slow enough I'll put a heavier fly on. I find you can fish the same tip most of the day.
     
  7. Yard Sale

    Yard Sale Huge Member

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    Easy there tiger. All I was trying to say is take your time and fish it the way that gives you the most confidence, or what feels right to you, rather than just leaving the same rig on all day despite different water conditions. No reason to get all huffy....
     
  8. Salmo_g

    Salmo_g Well-Known Member

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    Yard Sale,

    Sorry, wasn't trying to exude a huffy or aggressive tone. Sometimes a guy will post a remark about the "right" way as though there is a right way that is exclusive of all others. If that was you, and you have the Holy Grail, I want to know! I agree that technique should be adjusted in accord with confidence.

    Did my line angle comments make sense to you?

    Sg
     
  9. William B.

    William B. Member

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    Made sense to me Salmo. If its a fast run and not to deep I tend to cast down and across mend to straighten it up a bit and let it swing. I also position myself in the river more carefully. If there is a seam at the top I will try to wade out past the slack water to get a better presentation. I shoud add I do use a weighted fly for this. I have had way more hook ups down and acoss than casting across at a 90. My reason is I fell more confident that my fly isnt wissing by at a speed that doesnt allow for a grab at the apex of the swing and it opens up a lot more river that is over looked.
     
  10. Yard Sale

    Yard Sale Huge Member

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    No worries. Last month I opened my winter fly box from last year, full of flies I thought at the time were absolute killers. They look so fugly to me now I just tossed em in a ziplock bag and started over. In other words what seems like gospel one day is old news the next...

    And you nailed it, I didn't fish those old lines. Makes sense if thats what you had to do. I was trying to say that after fishing with a couple solid dudes last year they all told me never throw above 45 degrees, ever, in winter. Then as I look around I see more and more people talk about how the good guys fish slow and slower. Then I watched my line and saw if I cast higher than that my angle sucked. Just something I have been tripping out on lately. Next week I'll probably be doing something different!

    Either way its a cool thread and I was stoked to see what other were thinking on a subject I been working on lately!
     
  11. yuhina

    yuhina Tropical member

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    Good discussion! Gentlemen...

    well, I am a bit surprised that no one have chosen " add weight to leader". I have saw Lani Waller used "the twist on lead" to the leader in his DVD. I thought it's a great idea to add a quick weight... are there any concern not to do so? Be honest with you, two steelhead I caught this winter were all from using this micro adjustment...
     
  12. Chris Bellows

    Chris Bellows Your Preferred WFF Poster

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    seriously, never above 45?
     
  13. Paul Huston

    Paul Huston Swinger

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    I need to preface with the fact that I am lazy..... and hate having to change out sink tips.
    This will lead to trying mends, stack mends, and over pulled (yanked) reach casts to try to get the bug down. If none of this has me ticking bottom as I swing into that sassy walking speed water on the inside seam, I will change out tips.
    I hate casting Split shot and twisties, they are reserved for the last resort, or to get down into steep pocket water.
     
  14. Ian Broadie

    Ian Broadie Flyfishing is so "Metal"

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    I chose "others" just because when I'm feeling lazy (which is most always :D) I'll change my casting angle and throw a bigger mend in for faster water. If that doesn't work I'll go for option 1.
     
  15. ak_powder_monkey

    ak_powder_monkey Proud to Be Alaskan

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    switch to nymphs? :p