The Cripple Pattern, magic or what?

Discussion in 'Fly Tying' started by GAT, Dec 11, 2012.

  1. Tim Cottage

    Tim Cottage Formerly tbc1415

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    The upside down hooks are from Waterwisp http://www.waterwisp.com/

    TC
     
  2. Tony

    Tony Left handed Gemini.

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    I think most emergers (mayflies, midges) do emerge horizontally which is why the pattern works so very well, I'm sure the fish are taking them as emergers rather than cripples, for years I've used a chironomid pattern tied the same way but without the hackle that does tend to sit up vertIcally more often due to the sparse body but not always and it never seems to matter and from my experience the mayfly version is a sure killer during a mayfly hatch.
    Tony
     
  3. GAT

    GAT Dumbfounded

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    I remember reading the first article published by the guys who came up with the Waterwisp style of tying flies. I wondered if that style of dry fly would ever catch on... it didn't.
     
  4. silvercreek

    silvercreek Active Member

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    Gene, you will remember that it was Jim Green on Flyfish@ that introduced Waterwisp. He was an executive with the World Bank and the flies are tied in Kenya, Africa. He bought the rights to Waterwisp and marketed it.

    Jim sent me a sample of the flies and I found that for some reason, they didn't hook fish like regular ties.

    http://www.waterwisp.com/ffm.htm
     
  5. Preston

    Preston Active Member

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    I tie my mayfly emergers to float horizontally in the surface film. Over the years my observations of emerging Callibaetis in particular would indicate that most of them float in a horizontal position as they begin to emerge from the nymphal shuck. Typically, I apply floatant to the entire fly, even the trailing shuck. My Callibaetis emerger (which I call the Chopaka Emerger; the pattern was shown to me by a friend who had it from "an old-timer at Lake Chopaka") started out with a wire rib, apparently in an effort to sink the hook shank and allow the fly to float vertically. Over the years I've made quite a few detail changes and one of the first was to get rid of the wire rib. Midges, on the other hand, do emerge vertically, pushing headfirst (actually shoulder-first, if an emerging midge can be said to have shoulders) through the surface film.

    Here are some pictures my Callibaetis Series patterns.
    2006_0406callibaetiseries0002.JPG 2006_0406callibaetiseries0007.JPG 2006_0406callibaetiseries0003.JPG
     
  6. GAT

    GAT Dumbfounded

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    Preston, beautiful flies to represent Callibaetis... I can certainly see why those would work. I like the color of the emerger. Most think the Callibaetis emerger is completely gray in color but the ones I've sampled have a tint of green and not totally gray.

    Tony, yeah, I don't think tying the wing and hackle around the hook bend is such a great idea. For one, each time you hook a fish, it would destroy the pattern when you remove the hook from the mouth of the fish.

    I never figured that style of dry fly is very practical.

    Gene
     
  7. silvercreek

    silvercreek Active Member

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  8. Tim Cottage

    Tim Cottage Formerly tbc1415

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    Hackled vertical emergers - The devil is in the details.

    If you tye your hackled emergers with the same amount of hackle wraps and a tail like a regular western dry fly it will float like a regular dry fly supported horizontally by its hackle and tail. If you want it to float vertically you will need to make some adjustments.

    Hackle - Reduce the amount of hackle wraps down to two wraps. Also use a longer hackle for more spread on the surface. About twice the hook gape.
    Wing - use a small amount of hollow hair. It floats but use too much and the weight tips the fly over.
    Body - use a tightly wrapped body. You want to avoid trapping air in the dubbing which causes the body to float. The body in the photo below is not tight enough but its the only pic I have available at this time.
    Tail - just a small sprig of fiber to create the illusion of a shuck. Do not use hollow hair for the tail. It floats.
    Hook - Don't use a hook with an elongated body.

    P1000490R+S.jpg

    In this group of test flies the two on the left (brown body, grey body) with less and longer hackle and less wing worked best.

    P1000504R+S.jpg

    Or as Chewydog suggests you can forget the hackle all-together and just use a forward wing. This a fly designed by Hans van Klinken named the Once and Away that depending on the hook you use floats vertically most of the time even though the body is hollow (peccary) hair. If you wrap the body pretty tight it will flatten the hollow hair and squeeze most of the air out while still maintaining a segmented look.

    P1000359R+S.jpg

    TC
     
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  9. silvercreek

    silvercreek Active Member

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    Mayflies do not suspend vertically. They suspend at an angle.

    They orient themselves so that their dorsal (posterior) thorax is in the film and they break through the thorax so it acts as a window through which the crawl out of to emerge. When they begin to crawl out they have an amorphous shape that is ill defined. So the trout sees the nymphal portion of the emerger under the film, the thorax in the film, with the front portion of the emerging dun above the film. Later, as the wings of the emerger begin to unfurl, the silhouette of the emerger above water gets larger and looks like the "cripple."

    Emergence is a continuum. It can be broken up into several prototypical stages. So when we say a fly is an emerger, it imitates a single stage in a continuous process. Therefore, when we say we are fishing an "emerger," as if was a singular fly, it is like pointing to a still photo frame and saying that it represents a movie. It does not and it cannot.

    Emergence is dynamic. Our naming of flies as emergers or cripples is like saying a point on a piece of paper represents a line. Any point on a piece of paper can represent only a single point along a line, and thus any single fly can only represent only a single stage along the process of emergence.

    What then is a "stillborn" or a "cripple?" They are identical in my view. They represent an insect that is trapped, or has failed to complete the emergence process. We can then see that the point at which they are trapped represents a stage along the process of emergence.

    What then separates a cripple pattern from an emerger pattern? Very little if you ask me. Both are stages or points along the process of emergence, are they not? Thus in my view, we are using semantics to say that an emerger represents an insect at stage or point of emergence, and a cripple represents a insect stuck at a stage or point of emergence. Both are the identical still "photos" from the same movie; and whether we call them emergers or cripples is wordplay.

    Look at 4:39 in the "Bugs of the Underworld" video below and you can see the process of emergence in real time. Imagine now that the emerging mayfly is stopped and stuck in the shuck. So are our "emerger" patterns really emergers or by imitating a single stage frozen in time, are they all more properly called stillborns/cripples?

    You decide.



    Gary Borger chooses to call these flies "film flies". Go to his discussion of emergence on pg. 2 of the link below, and you will see that the Quigley Cripple represents a Tstage 3 emerger just like a KlinkhÄmer and a parachute adams.

    "TStage 3. The insect pulls its head out of the shuck, followed almost immediately by the legs. At this point it enters stage 3, which is matched perfectly by the universal emerger: a Parachute Adams (or other fly with an upright parachute post such as the KlinkhÄmer)."

    http://archives.flyfisherman.com/content/film-flies
     
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  10. silvercreek

    silvercreek Active Member

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    Midge emergence is not identical to mayfly emergence. The low body mass of the midge pupa means that it cannot break though the meniscus like mayfly nymph or a caddis pupa. Therefore, they need a different type "emerger" pattern to imitate how they actually emerge.

    Most midge emerger patterns are traditional "suspender patterns" that suspend the fly in a vertical orientation with the hook eye up and the bend down. This is the way a mayfly emergers by placing the thorax wing pads of of the nymph into the film and breaking through the film with the nymphal shuck trailing behind.

    However, this is not how midge pupa orient themselves during emergence. They form a flattened "U" shape with the head and tail of the pupa in the film and the body hanging below. The traditional suspender pattern cannot match the the hanging "U". See the video below at about 1 minute 35 seconds into the video to see the actual hanging pupa. Notice that the reflection in the mirror forms a characteristic oval appearance of the hanging pupa.



    The only fly that I know of that can duplicate this appearance is the Roy Christie Avon Special Emerger or a variation of Roy's fly. This where the upside down flies can shine.

    You can do a Google search for Roy's fly or click on Here to see the design. You can click on Simplified Version to see an easier version that Roy has tied that should be very effective.
     
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  11. Pat Lat

    Pat Lat Mad Flyentist

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    the hooks are marketed specifically for upsidedown flies? Can't you just turn a standard hook over? kinda reminds me of a joke where a guy is throwing out every other nail because they were pointed at the wrong end, turned out they were for the other side of the house:)
     
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  12. GAT

    GAT Dumbfounded

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    The fact remains, if you're going to tie relatively fragile material around the hook bend, the fish are going to tear it up in short order with their teeth... not to mention the damage you'll do to the fly using hemostats to remove the hook.

    If you plan to use this style of pattern, you'd better tie a bunch because if you're catching fish, the flies won't last long.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Tim Cottage

    Tim Cottage Formerly tbc1415

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    Its thinking like that that will get you in trouble with the fly tying police. :eek: I think what you are suggesting is what Roy Christie has done as illustrated in SIlvercreek's first post.
    Along a similar but somwhat abstract train of thought, that is why I recomend that when fishing dry flies you should always turn your leader around because the fat part of the leader will help keep your fly afloat.

    TC
     
  14. GAT

    GAT Dumbfounded

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    "Along a similar but somewhat abstract train of thought, that is why I recomend that when fishing dry flies you should always turn your leader around because the fat part of the leader will help keep your fly afloat."

    Makes as much sense as tying your flies back-asswards.

    Might as well write it up for an article. :)
     
  15. riseform

    riseform Active Member

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