Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by dryflylarry, May 14, 2010.
If the intention of your statement is to have us withhold judgment on the oil companies. that is laughable. They have a really dirty history. Beginning with the Sherman Anit-Trust Act and continuing into today. They have worked long and hard to EARN their greedy, profit-driven reputation. :rofl:
Bullsheit. The enemy is the arsehats that used legal loopholes to get to oil that the american public, congress, and the president of the united states deemed unsafe to drill. I look in the mirror and say, I used all of my powers as an american to vote against politicans who wated to drill this oil. And by that I mean this specific deposit and the deposit in Anwr AK that has been SPECIFICALLY a topic of conversation for all of the federal elections since I became old enough to vote. Maybe you feel guilty. Maybe rightfully so. And don't pin that, "you use oil so it's your fault" BS on me. I have no qualms with picking up an m-203 or 16 and heading off to Iraq or to Afghanastan and taking those basterds oil to put in my tank.
Absolutely not my intention, a number of times in this thread I mentioned they warrant criticism. I wanted to point out that there is very valid criticism vs ignorant attacks. Making ignorant attacks is not as effective, and should be avoided.
I'm not an apologist for the excesses and shortcomings of the oil industry. But to insist that the current problem is entirely their fault is asinine. We can argue (as you seem disposed to do) whether it was the chicken or the egg that came first ad nauseum. The plain fact is that oil companies would not exist (nor would industry watchdogs be inclined to look the other way) were it not for our ever-increasing demand for their products and the huge sums we're willing to pay to get them.
Nobody's holding a gun to anyone's head and forcing us to drive 25,000 miles a year in a gas-hog SUV that gets 9mpg so we can tow our drift boats over the pass at 80mph. There are choices in life which clearly you and others here would prefer not to have to make.
Bullshit back at ya.
No no no, don't try to extrapolate this into something that is bigger than it really is or bait and switch the real issue. Save that for the talking heads and politicians. This was a specific deposit that the american people specifically said "Do not drill!" fully knowing the consequences of not tapping that oil. I don't think any one has a problem with oil companies existing. I think they have a problem with oil companies doing exactly what we told them not to do and then saying it's "our fault" when they do and it blows up in their faces. Literally.
Read this one in it's entirety as well. do you trust these shitbags to run projects like this as well? Maybe if I stop driving my car they would halt the project?
Read the whole article.
Today BP acknowledged that they are siphoning off 5000 barrels a day through the little pipe. They also acknowledged that there is still a tremendous amount spilling that they are not containing. They would not put an estimate on the leak volume. Another engineer weighed in and estimated no less than 10,000 barrels a day is leaking around that small pipe but that total could be as little as a tenth of the true volume. WTF, about 1/5 of the Gulf of Mexico is now closed to fishing. The term tip of the iceburg seems like such an understatement.
I was driving home today and heard one of those "top of the hour" news briefs. One of the complaints was that, and I quote, "the chemical that they are putting into the ocean to break up the oil is one molecule away from being antifreeze."
Hmm......I'm no scientist, but that doesn't seem like a good thing. :hmmm:
F'ing EPA approved that shit though. I'm sure that will even further devastate the fishing industry and a myriad of beautiful species found in the gulf.
I've had a hard time stomaching this whole friggin fiasco. It's a travesty and i dont even want to think about what will happens if the oil hits the everglades. The whole argument that we are all to share in the blame drives me up the wall. The powers that be give us no other options. The full electric car was squashed and todays hybrids are priced so freakin high, it's out of my range. It seems that when any alternate energies, not just oil, are brought to forefront it seems it's always "cost prohibitive." We all, as a nation and a world, have to start demanding a shift from fossil fuels toward SOMETHING else. Or this shit is going to keep happening.
My guess is that the report was trying to be sensational. Being one molecule away from antifreeze doesn't really say anything scientifically.
After all, O2 and CO are one mere ATOM apart, and yet we need O2 to live while CO kills us if breathed in large concentrations. Common table salt (NaCl) and hydrochloric acid (HCl) are also one atom apart. Etc. I'm not saying the chemical similarity to antifreeze is not significant, but we'd need more detail to know.
Regardless of chemical makeup, it does appear that the dispersant they're currently using is indeed toxic, at least according to the very many reports from scientists to that effect. The Gulf of Mexico loses either way.
Good point. But then you're suggesting that the news media hypes things up just to get your attention......say it isn't so! They would never do that. They alwasys tell us the truth don't they. :rofl:
Well, if it is harmless....they got me.
Turns out that this morning the Feds ordered BP to use a different type of dispersant and to cease and desist with the one they've been using for the past several weeks: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/21/science/earth/21disperse.html?ref=us
Then there's this: possible conflict of interests between BP and water quality testing labs raises concerns about accuracy. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/21/science/earth/21conflict.html?ref=us
I used to complain about oil dependency until I realized that I drive as fast as I possibly can everywhere I go, pretty much negating any advantage of having a vehicle with decent gas mileage.
The earth, the fish and everything else will eventually recover. Humans--I doubt we'll fare so well in the long run.
NASA's Voyager spacecraft pushed further out into space than any other mission before them. Voyager 1 and 2 visited Jupiter and Saturn, and Voyager 2 went on to travel to Uranus and Neptune. In 1990, after Voyager 2 completed its mission of visiting the outer planets, Carl Sagan encouraged NASA to have the Voyager 1 spacecraft to take a final picture of Earth, from a distance of more than 6 billion kilometers from Earth. The resulting image showed Earth as nothing more than a tiny spec, a "pale blue dot". That was the name given to it by Carl Sagan, and it stuck.
Voyager 1 took this photograph in 1990, when it was approximately 40.5 astronomical units from Earth (6 billion km, or 3.8 billion miles). It was taken at a height of 32° above the plane of the ecliptic, using red, green and blue filters. Earth is the little dot circled in the image. The beams you see in the image are a glare from the Sun seen by Voyager 1's camera.
Sagan wrote a book with the title "Pale Blue Dot", and he gave a commencement address in 1996 reflecting on the image:
Look again at that dot. That's here, that's home, that's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.