The merits (or lack thereof) for a wild steelhead retention tag

Discussion in 'Steelhead' started by sleestak240, Dec 30, 2013.

  1. Jeremy Floyd

    Jeremy Floyd fly fishing my way through life

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    I am not pushing the bonk a native. I am looking for a way to indirectly protect them. Just in case anyone misconstrues
     
  2. golfman44

    golfman44 5-Time Puget Sound Steelhead Guide of the Year

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    I understand. I guess I'm just a natural cynic and honestly believe that those who want to Bonk a native will do so regardless of an available permit
     
  3. Chris Johnson

    Chris Johnson Member: Native Fish Society

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    $ 72,000 is not much revenue, one enforcement officer probably costs that much or more.
     
  4. Jeremy Floyd

    Jeremy Floyd fly fishing my way through life

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    You missed a zero, chris.. It's 3/4 mil.
     
  5. Derek Day

    Derek Day Rockyday

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    No one is going to pay into the hundreds, and it will look like what it is--a back door effort at ending retention--making it a political non-starter.

    The fee would have to be low, and it would only deter the harvests of opportunity.
     
  6. golfman44

    golfman44 5-Time Puget Sound Steelhead Guide of the Year

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    yea the problem is those that care about natives will not spend a penny on a permit, but those that would bonk a native most likely dont give a shit enough to pay for a permit. they will just bonk them anyways.
     
  7. sleestak240

    sleestak240 Active Member

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    The argument that people will simply break the law is one that's dead from the start as far as I'm concerned. People are going to break virtually every law that's ever enacted...that doesn't mean it isn't worthwhile to have it in place for the 99.9% that aren't going to break the law. If we decided to sit on our heels because of a few bad apples, society probably would have descended into anarchy long ago and we'd be roving bands of marauders.

    Right now guys break the laws out there all the time...you will never recruit them to comply and they are the fringes that have to be ruled out of planning as far as I'm concerned. The only way to catch them is undercover operations, which will never happen. To sit here and use them as an argument against changing the status quo is a giant waste of time, energy, and brainpower.

    Here's an even more interesting addition...only allocate a certain number of tags per season. It wouldn't state anywhere that you have to use the tag. That would allow conservation minded anglers to put their money where their mouths are and purchase all the retention tags.
     
  8. golfman44

    golfman44 5-Time Puget Sound Steelhead Guide of the Year

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    I will 100% agree with you for laws in regards to shit like murder and armed robbery, but when it comes to an angler fishing for steelhead, that point is moot. I'm even willing to go as far as guaranteeing that someone who has replied to this very thread in support of steelhead conservation has themselves bonked a native steelhead before.


    That wont really happen tho..sure some might, but if you're talking in the suggested ballpark of $500+ (was suggested above) to get a retention tag, I can guarantee you that when push comes to shove, the vast majority of anglers would rather have that shiny deathstar in their hands as opposed to throwing that money at a donation to native fish.



    I'm not trying to say any of you are wrong or incorrect, I just honestly believe that people put wayyyyy to much faith in other human beings "doing the right thing"
     
  9. sleestak240

    sleestak240 Active Member

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    It wouldn't need to be concealed as anything other than an effort to end retention...it would be impossible to sell it any other way. It's a compromise though...and both groups win a little and lose a little. At the end of the day, since the WDFW is more concerned with creating opportunity than limiting it, such an idea would probably be DOA anyways. It's unfortunate that we can't get some folks with a little more vision in positions of power in that agency.

    Guys pay hundreds of dollars every day of the year out there to have a guy row them down the river to bonk a native. Albeit, they don't directly pay for the fish in that scenario, they are paying for the knowledge on how to find and kill one.

    I think a great deal of harvest over there is opportunity based...it would be foolhardy in my mind to not support a viable system to reduce harvests of opportunity. It's a start at least.
     
  10. sleestak240

    sleestak240 Active Member

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    I'd say a more valid figure would be in the $75-$100 range. As I said before, you'd need to find a point where you'd be able to recruit most people without driving them towards the illegal route. Setting the mark to be outrageous would simply drive people away right from the start.

    When the classified waters system was enacted in BC in the early 90s many people thought nobody would pay the fees or that compliance would be low. The opposite has occurred though - in general, people gladly pay the fees and compliance is quite high. It's a different clientele, but the results might surprise you.

    You guys raise some great viewpoints though - some new, some old, but all are interesting interpretations of how to approach a complicated issue such as this and the pitfalls along the way.
     
  11. PT

    PT Physhicist

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    I'll push for a halt statewide to any and all wild steelhead retention. No support for any trophy tag whatsoever! Let's stop going backwards or sideways.
     
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  12. Rob Allen

    Rob Allen Active Member

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    if there is a place for being an obstinate jerk who causes division among sport anglers this is the issue with which to do it in my opinion.

    wild steelhead release state wide without exception forever regardless of stock health.
     
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  13. Chris Johnson

    Chris Johnson Member: Native Fish Society

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    I just don't think many people are going to pay that kind of $$ just to bonk a fish. In B.C. your paying for the right to fish not to kill( I remember paying a premium river fee in the 70's in Northern B.C.). I don't want to minimize the killing of wild Steelhead but, it seems like a lot of bureaucracy for 150 fish, why not just go for a complete moratorium.
     
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  14. Jmills81

    Jmills81 The Dude Abides

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    The premise of this idea, although well intended, is flat bs. It's akin to selling tags for northern spotted owl or some other endangered species. No wild retention. At All. Bonk the shit out of hatchery fish and consume them with a smile.
     
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  15. Smalma

    Smalma Active Member

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    If folks are thinking of going down this path I think a modification that might have merit would a "wild steelhead fishing permit".

    Such a permit would be required for any winter steelhead fishing after the first of February through May. Such a permit would allow the angler to take a single wild fish/year on those waters where it had been determined that such harvest is OK. However once that fish is taken the permit becomes invalid and the angler can no longer fish for steelhead that season. I would see such a permit costing something like $10.

    The value of this sort of system it becomes the "ticket" to fish at the time of year when the majority of the fish are wild. It recognizes that even a CnR season has some wild fish impacts thus the need of the permit. It requires the angler who wish to kill a fish to make their own determination of whether taking that fish is worth giving up whatever remains of the "season" to take that fish. It appeals to me that it becomes each individual angles decision on how to use that permit (CnR fishing, taking a wild fish , harvesting a fish of a lifetime etc.) as long it is with in the impact guidelines for each individual basin.

    I would expect such a permit would generate several $100,000 of income that could be ear marked for wild steelhead monitoring. And yes the legislature action would be required to create such a permit and its fee and well as use of those fees. It would still remain the responsibility of the Fish and Wildlife Commission to establish the fishing regulations and the co-mangers (tribes and WDFW) working with NMFS to develop what would be appropriate ESA impacts and determine what sort of seasons (if any) would be allowed for individual listed stocks.

    Curt