The ultimate fishing sidearm?

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Kent Lufkin, Nov 12, 2007.

  1. Cliff

    Cliff Member

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    David, I love ALL wildlife, including rattlesnakes. I think they're endlessly fascinating creatures. But if it comes to my bird dog being bitten by one, well, I would have to protect my pooch. As for me, I'm not fearful of them, just respectful.

    Cliff

    ps - Exactly what IS a dill-hole? I've heard that term before but I just can't picture it....
     
  2. David Dalan

    David Dalan 69°19'15.35" N 18°44'22.74" E

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    No argument here. Defending your pooch (or God forbid a child) is a priority.

    I was just thinking, for most folks, avoiding them is a safer bet. I just have this vision of someone tromping down a trail, seeing a snake and say "OMG there's a SNAKE!!" *BLAM*.

    Obviously my vision does not fit all situations or folks :)

    Oh yeah...that Taurus looks like a nifty sidearm.
     
  3. poirierpro

    poirierpro Member

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    iagree 100%
     
  4. salt dog

    salt dog card shark

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    The vast majority of snake bites are the direct result of a known chemical reaction between testosterone and alcohol.

    Anyone tried out that Taurus by the way? Wondering what kind of a recoil you would have with 410 shells.
     
  5. Pieter Salverda

    Pieter Salverda Member

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    I am posting here against my better judgement, but am curious what others are doing so differently than I am. I have spent good time in the outdoors, hiking, fishing, hunting, etc. My dog knows well enough to stay away from rattlers. If he comes across a snake he is going to be bitten much quicker than I can pull a gun, get to the snake, aim, shoot, and "defend my dog." And I have yet to have a snake chase down and attack my dog. For all the training that anyone with a bird dog should do, it is not hard to train them away from rattlers - PM me and I will tell you how.

    With regards to the "shooting to kill" vs. "shooting in the foot" debate, how about the tried and true, just walk away from your fishing hole strategy. I understand there are dangers from bears, cougar, and the like, but this is more directed at the "personal protection" people. I cannot imagine a possible scenario in which I would "need" a gun to protect myself while fishing. We should all be smart enough to know when to walk away from a specific area. We can all read people well enough to know when potential trouble is around. In those situations, how about just walking away? I understand this is a pain in the ass, and the argument people will have about their "right to fish where they want to fish" but for christ sake...THEY ARE ONLY FISH!!!

    Too many people spending too much time worrying how to protect themselves from "the methheads." You want to protect yourself? Get off your asses and go volunteer at a teen center. Or better yet, spend the money you would on a fricking gun and pay for a guide to take someone fishing that otherwise may not understand the wonders of the outdoors. I understand that would take actual effort and be a slower solution to the problem, but I think it is far more constructive than shooting to kill.

    my 2 cents.

    Pieter
     
  6. Kent Lufkin

    Kent Lufkin Remember when you could remember everything?

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    Yes, my neighbor has. He says it's comparable with the .357 Taurus Titanium both he and I own.

    K
     
  7. Roper

    Roper Idiot Savant

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    Has your friend patterned this little banger? I'm curious to see what the performance might be, questionable is my personal opinion, but who knows.

    Evan, the rock salt load is an old wives tale, it doesn't stand up to the pressures and shock of being shot. You end up dusting them...
     
  8. Kent Lufkin

    Kent Lufkin Remember when you could remember everything?

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    He said that the pellets 'spread' more than they would in a shotgun thanks to the Judge's rifled bore. As a result, he thinks that it's stopping power against a human-sized target would be best at from 10 to 15 feet. By 25 feet, the pellets would be too dispersed. But he quickly adds, that's what the two .45 Colt rounds are for.

    K
     
  9. Scott Keith

    Scott Keith Member

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    I used to live in SE Texas, home of the Cottonmouth, a snake that is VERY aggressive. I had quite a few close encounters but was pretty damn accurate with a slingshot. That's all I needed to get one moving in the opposite direction. I'm sure the sting of a large steel ball would also do an ok job in warding off other animals, or people. But even someone on something might not stop without putting a lot of rounds in them. My father was a police officer in Menlo park back in the 60's. They were involved in a shoot-out with someone that was strung out. I believe he said it took about 40 rounds before the guy actually dropped. I hope that I'm never in a situation where I'd have to draw my weapon... but if I have to I'm prepared to use it. Although I'd much rather quietly walk away from any confrontation out fishing.

    Scott
     
  10. Sloan Craven

    Sloan Craven Active Member

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    Warm weather, gorgeous women, blue water..... Yeah, I guess that wouldn't be that great.
     
  11. Cliff

    Cliff Member

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    Scott, my dad was from the Missouri Ozarks, and yes, the cottonmouth is more aggressive than any snake I've ever seen. There's a small stream called Swan Creek, which empties into the White River at Forsyth, not far from Branson. There were plenty of water mocassains farther up the stream and they could be pretty aggressive. My mom was a tough Montana girl and she was afraid of going up there. Interesting comments on your father's experiences with the bad guy. I was a police officer for a brief time in Orange County, in the late 70's, and I recall stories such as this, especially after officers started using the Wondernines (hi capacity 9mm pistols). My dad was a career homicide detective with SPD and I've heard incredible stories of people shot up badly but exhibiting superhuman strength, not only through substance abuse, but also simple adrenaline. I recall one case where a guy was shot point-blank in the chest with a 12ga with buckshot and ran an entire city block before collasping. Your point is well taken.

    Pieter, good comments. My dogs do NOT know enough to stay away from snakes. you can have a bird dog "snake trained", which is fairly common in the southern states where there are more snakes.
    This is accomplished with a defanged rattler and e-collar. I understand it has a fairly high success rate, for those dogs which do not sprint right into one before being able to hear or sense it. I have a hunting pal who had his dog snake-broke with this method while he was living in Texas. Despite this, his dog was bitten on the nose in Robinson Canyon a couple of years back. He blundered into the rattler without having seen or smelled it and the snake didn't buzz him. So, it works, at least some of the time, and bird dogs being what they are - bold and aggressive, don't always do what they're supposed to do. I'm thinking about hunting mearns quail is Arizona next spring, and if I do I'm thinking strongly of having my younger setter snake-trained. As for not being able to be in a position to defend my dog with a handgun, well, that's just not true for me. I've been in a tight spot or two where a snake buzzed us and I was able to grab my dog and steer him away before he got into touble, but if I was more than ten seconds slower it might have been different. I could have just as easily shot the snake.

    Cliff
     
  12. Be Jofus G

    Be Jofus G Banned or Parked

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    You're already looking at a shell with virtually no stopping power on anything larger than a rabbit even out of a long barrel with a choke. I'm with Roper it probably wouldn't pass the paper plate test.
     
  13. cuponoodle breakfast

    cuponoodle breakfast la flama blanca

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    Recently I've been thinking about a more potent fishing sidearm than what I have. It's the usual problem of weight vs power. I've fired a S&W Scandium framed .357 and it's downright painful. "The Judge" sure is different. I've been thinking .44 special or .357 but .45colt would be a good choice too. If nothing else, I'd like to fondle one.
    I haven't been to my local gun shop since the new owners took over, maybe I'll go today.

    Too often in gun threads, people give piss-poor advice, like shooting for the foot. There is no training program that will advise that. It's bad defensively. It's bad legally. I'm sure that next week when I'm doing my requalification, they'll still advocate center-mass hits and not foot, knee, hand, whatever hits.
    Then there are the people who say they've fished X years and never needed a gun, so everyone who carries one is a Dirty Harry wannabe. Many things are worth having even though they haven't been used in the past. Lots of guys on the river have guns with them and you never know it. They're not waving them around or looking for a reason to use them.
     
  14. PhlyPhisher

    PhlyPhisher New Member

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    iagree This subject matter kind of surprised me. I'm not anti-guns but due to my ignorance, they make me unease. I plan on taking some gun classes next summer, but until I know more about them I don't want to be near them and you don't want me around you.
    Having said that... I understand they're almost obligatory in Alaska. However I'm not sure if they're really needed in western Washington. If I was to list who I worry most about needing to use a gun on, they'd be in this order. Stoned out humans protecting their meth labs, cougars, black bear and road signs. (Just joking on the last one.;))
    My relatives on my father's side of the family are all experienced with guns. One of the things they've pointed out is as ChadK pointed out above. You pull a gun you'd better be ready to use it. They also pointed out that in a high stress situation, you adrenalin is pumping and the first thing to go is your "small motor control". Even cops, and combat experienced individuals know better then to "aim at the foot". That only works on TV.
    Personally, I'd like to hear if anybody on this forum has needed to use a gun while fishing, or experienced a situation where they wished they had one. If so please share it with us.
     
  15. Be Jofus G

    Be Jofus G Banned or Parked

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    I was fishing in western PA on a buddies private pond in the middle of nowhere. I heard a strange grunting noise and a rustle behind me. There was a mammouth Whitetail buck sporting a 12 point (6 point for you west coasters) 30 inch spread staring me down. Man I wish I had a gun with me. :beathead: