The ultimate fishing sidearm?

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Kent Lufkin, Nov 12, 2007.

  1. bankwalker

    bankwalker Member

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    oh i know. i dont pack a gun. imo the likelyness of ever needing one when in the field weather it be from animal or person is very slim. you have a better chance of breaking a world record for w/e fish you are targeting.

    BUT imo if you are gonna pack a gun for defense you better hope to god it can get the job done on w/e you are carrying it as defense for.

    places like bluecreek, hoodsport,sky,etc etc when 90% of the things you will need to defend yourself against is people there is no need for a big gun.

    places like the upper reaches of northwest rivers, like green, sky, snoqualmie forks, etc etc where encounters with big game animals THAT could attack you need to carry a gun that will get the job done. a 45acp even though it is a 45cal will not get the job done in most cases (very wimpy round) i see alot of people who carry 9mm or 40cal even 38sp and think they are protected well when in the field against bears and other big game animals that may threaten their livelyhood. IMO that is very disrespectfull to the animal which "MIGHT" attack.
     
  2. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

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    RCW 9.41.050
    Carrying firearms.
    (1)(a) Except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, a person shall not carry a pistol concealed on his or her person without a license to carry a concealed pistol.

    (b) Every licensee shall have his or her concealed pistol license in his or her immediate possession at all times that he or she is required by this section to have a concealed pistol license and shall display the same upon demand to any police officer or to any other person when and if required by law to do so. Any violation of this subsection (1)(b) shall be a class 1 civil infraction under chapter 7.80 RCW and shall be punished accordingly pursuant to chapter 7.80 RCW and the infraction rules for courts of limited jurisdiction.

    (2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

    (b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.

    (3)(a) A person at least eighteen years of age who is in possession of an unloaded pistol shall not leave the unloaded pistol in a vehicle unless the unloaded pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

    (b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.

    (4) Nothing in this section permits the possession of firearms illegal to possess under state or federal law.


    [2003 c 53 § 28; 1997 c 200 § 1; 1996 c 295 § 4; 1994 sp.s. c 7 § 405; 1982 1st ex.s. c 47 § 3; 1961 c 124 § 4; 1935 c 172 § 5; RRS § 2516-5.]

    NOTES:


    Intent -- Effective date -- 2003 c 53: See notes following RCW 2.48.180.


    Finding -- Intent -- Severability -- 1994 sp.s. c 7: See notes following RCW 43.70.540.


    Effective date -- 1994 sp.s. c 7 §§ 401-410, 413-416, 418-437, and 439-460: See note following RCW 9.41.010.


    Severability -- 1982 1st ex.s. c 47: See note following RCW 9.41.190.


    RCW 9.41.060
    Exceptions to restrictions on carrying firearms.
    The provisions of RCW 9.41.050 shall not apply to:

    (1) Marshals, sheriffs, prison or jail wardens or their deputies, or other law enforcement officers of this state or another state;

    (2) Members of the armed forces of the United States or of the national guard or organized reserves, when on duty;

    (3) Officers or employees of the United States duly authorized to carry a concealed pistol;

    (4) Any person engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms, or the agent or representative of the person, if possessing, using, or carrying a pistol in the usual or ordinary course of the business;

    (5) Regularly enrolled members of any organization duly authorized to purchase or receive pistols from the United States or from this state;

    (6) Regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for the purpose of target shooting, when those members are at or are going to or from their places of target practice;

    (7) Regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for the purpose of modern and antique firearm collecting, when those members are at or are going to or from their collector's gun shows and exhibits;

    (8) Any person engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, or horseback riding, only if, considering all of the attendant circumstances, including but not limited to whether the person has a valid hunting or fishing license, it is reasonable to conclude that the person is participating in lawful outdoor activities or is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area;
    (9) Any person while carrying a pistol unloaded and in a closed opaque case or secure wrapper; or

    (10) Law enforcement officers retired for service or physical disabilities, except for those law enforcement officers retired because of mental or stress-related disabilities. This subsection applies only to a retired officer who has: (a) Obtained documentation from a law enforcement agency within Washington state from which he or she retired that is signed by the agency's chief law enforcement officer and that states that the retired officer was retired for service or physical disability; and (b) not been convicted or found not guilty by reason of insanity of a crime making him or her ineligible for a concealed pistol license.


    [2005 c 453 § 3; 1998 c 253 § 2; 1996 c 295 § 5; 1995 c 392 § 1; 1994 sp.s. c 7 § 406; 1961 c 124 § 5; 1935 c 172 § 6; RRS § 2516-6.]

    NOTES:


    Severability -- 2005 c 453: See note following RCW 9.41.040.


    Finding -- Intent -- Severability -- 1994 sp.s. c 7: See notes following RCW 43.70.540.


    Effective date -- 1994 sp.s. c 7 §§ 401-410, 413-416, 418-437, and 439-460: See note following RCW 9.41.010.
     
  3. Be Jofus G

    Be Jofus G Banned or Parked

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    Yes, I know the law and it is vauge. Define outdoor activity and traveling to or from one? I can think of 20 thousand ways an anti gun nut DA can twist that one to get a conviction or a "Super Cop" hasseling someone even though they are in the right. Just fork up the few bucks for a CWP and avoid having to get an attorney involved. They aren't any where near as cheap as a CWP.
     
  4. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

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    If I am walking along side a river with rubber pants on and a fly rod in hand I think it would be safe to assume I am participating in some sort of fishing activity. Some might think the rubber pants are a bit strange but it is legal for me to carry a concealled weapon inside those rubber pants. An anti-gun DA will have his day with anyone who carries a gun whether they have the required permits or are participating in legal outdoor activities.
     
  5. Mike T

    Mike T Active Member

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    There is a legal difference between concealed carry and open carrying while in the act of an outdoor recreational activity.

    To conceal carry you need a CPL, period. Under your waders would be concealed carry.

    Anyone can open carry in the state of WA. Is it a good idea is another kettle of fish, I personally think not.

    A civilian can not have a gun of any type in a National Park. National Forests are okay.

    Without a CPL you should transport your gun with it unloaded and the ammunition seperated from the gun. With a CPL a loaded gun should be on your person, this used to be law, I'm not sure if it still is. Either way common sense says you don't want a loaded gun outside of your control at any time.

    If in doubt please ask a law enforcement officer. Making an honest mistake and defending yourself against felony gun charges won't be cheap or fun. Getting convicted and losing your rights would be a tragedy.
     
  6. Be Jofus G

    Be Jofus G Banned or Parked

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    Try walking across the fryes parking lot on your way to the cedar with a loaded 44 magnum hanging off of your hip. Get the CWP and protect yourself. Also it is not a good Idea for anyone to know you are carrying. It could unnecessarily escalate a situation or make others around you uncomfortable. :beer2:
     
  7. Peter Pancho

    Peter Pancho Active Member

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    Glock 23 even gets heavy after a couple hrs of fishing. I'll just carry a couple .50 cal bullets and take em' out like "David and Goliath" hehe.
     
  8. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

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    We could argue this 'til the cows come home. The bottom line is; it is legal to carry a weapon in the State of Washington while ingaged in outdoor activities.
     
  9. Kent Lufkin

    Kent Lufkin Remember when you could remember everything?

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    Mike,

    Exception 8 does not stipulate that a weapon carried while engaging in an outdoor recreational activity be carried openly. The exceptions are prefaced by the statement, "The provisions of RCW 9.41.050 shall not apply to:. . ." Since RCW 9.41.050 states that pistols be carried openly, condition 8 provides an exception from that requirement.

    (8) Any person engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, or horseback riding, only if, considering all of the attendant circumstances, including but not limited to whether the person has a valid hunting or fishing license, it is reasonable to conclude that the person is participating in lawful outdoor activities or is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area;​

    Your last paragraph above is probably the best piece of wisdom anyone has shared on this entire thread.

    K
     
  10. Snake

    Snake tryin' not to get too comfortable

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    This is one of the best threads I've seen in a long time.

    It started as an observation about the utility of the Taurus Judge as a decent backcountry/fishing sidearm (nice going, Kent..), and it has jumped to many other topics, including many that could easily dissolve into verbal fisticuffs (gun ownership/usage, shoot-to-kill vs. shoot-to-wound, concealed vs. open carry, justification for lethal force against rattlesnakes, etc).

    But everyone has kept a civil tone, and there are definitely some gems of wisdom in here.

    My own take:

    -It's extremely unlikely you will ever encounter a situation where a gun is necessary, but that's a sliding scale depending on where you fish/backpack/live, and how aware you are of your surroundings.

    -Guns are heavy.

    -Maintaining proficiency with a firearm requires a LOT of practice.

    -The laws pertaining to concealed/open carry, justifiable use of lethal force, and hunting regulations are fairly complex.

    Remember the old "Goofus and Gallant" strip in Highlights magazine?

    Goofus:

    : Doesn't do any research, and buys a crappy gun in a pawnshop that isn't suited (in caliber or style) for his primary need. He just wants a gun to feel tough, or because he wants to protect his family.

    : Doesn't learn about gun safety, and never practices shooting skills. He just loads it up, and puts it in the dresser drawer. If he's really dumb, he carries it illegally concealed, fantasizing about vigilante justice.

    : Brags/talks about about the gun he's carrying, even to strangers. In the worst case, actually brandishes the gun unneccessarily (and illegally!).

    : Knows nothing about gun laws in his state.

    Gallant:

    :Takes the time to identify his major needs/justification for a firearm (and decides whether he really NEEDS a gun, and WILL accept the responsibility of ownership), and researches different gun models before he buys one. He keeps his family involved in the whole process.

    :Takes a class about gun safety and firearm selection for specific circumstances. This can be done BEFORE buying a firearm, to help decision-making.

    :Understands the laws concerning gun ownership. Takes additional classes to understand when he can/can't use a gun, and provide legal evidence of that knowledge.

    :Takes even more classes to learn how to shoot under stressful situations.

    :Shoots his gun on a regular basis, using "real-life" scenarios. (Whatever that is in his world.......)

    :Is discreet. He knows the law, and has a legal permit to carry concealed. But if you met him on a river, you would never know that he has a .44 under his waders, because he doesn't advertise it.


    I don't know what is right for you, and I won't presume to tell any of you whether it's right or not. Whatever you do, if you decide to carry a gun, don't be a 'Goofus".
     
  11. Be Jofus G

    Be Jofus G Banned or Parked

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    No doubt man. not arguing the legality of it, just the practicality. :beer2: It is also perfectly legal in washington state to stick your tallywacker in an electric socket. I Just don't want to see anyone here get f-ed..... in a bad way. :cool:
     
  12. East Fork

    East Fork Active Member

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    I didn't know that. :):):)
     
  13. PhlyPhisher

    PhlyPhisher New Member

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    iagree
    Snake,
    Well said!!! Thanks for a great posting! iagree
    As I stated earlier in this thread; I'm not knowledgeable about guns and therefore I'm not comfortable around them. (I also don't own a handgun.) I plan on taking a gun safety class next year for reasons that I'll state later in this posting. Until then, I have no plans to be a "Goofus". (I've a feeling that there's more than a few on this site. Which is a shame because it makes rational/reasonable gun owners targets for the rabid anti-gun crowd.)
    I'd like to ask for some advice/information on some points of view or stories I've heard from my gun experienced relatives in Wyoming. The bulk of them are ranchers that act as hunting guides during the slower winter months. They love to sit around and tell stories, but I don't always know if I'm being B.S.d or not. So please give me your take on some of these stories...

    One is about a guy they claimed they knew that was treed by a Grizzlie. They said he was carrying a pistol, (the guy, not the bear,) in event of this sort of situation. At any rate, the bear was standing upright on its hind legs trying to reach the guy when the guy shot the bear in the head. According to my uncles, the bullets just kept deflecting off the bears head. They said due to the angle of the shots and the thickness of the bears skull, all the guy was doing was knocking fur off and making the bear angrier. Supposedly the bear eventually ran off. (So, you guys that are gun/hunting savvy; Is this likely?)

    Story #2: They told of a guy that was up in Alaska fishing when he was charged by a Kodiak. (sp.?)
    The guy was so frightened that he forgot about his gun and ran behind his jeep. The bear ran around the car chasing him. Finally the guy in desperation crawled under the vehicle. The bear hooked one paw under the car and lifted two wheels off the ground while swiping at him with the other. The guy kept rolling away and the bear dropped the car and went around to the other side and repeated the process. When the car was dropped it bounced down and hit the guy under the car, breaking his collarbone and arm on his shooting side. Eventually the bear wandered off. I know the Kodiaks are big bears, but is this a "urban legend" and/or what good would a handgun do you in such a situation?

    And as I promised earlier in this posting...I'll explain why I'm considering learning how to handle a gun and buying a handgun.
    A few years ago I was hiking to a fishing spot. I fished for a few hours and on my way back along the trail, I noticed cougar tracks. They were on top of several of my foot prints. This causes me to think I was being stalked. This really freaked me out! I wanted to run, but was afraid that it might provoke a chase situation. (I knew that the odds are that if a cougar is stalking you, you'd never know until he made you dinner.) I've camped, fished and hiked for years prior to this and never worried about such an event. Now I can't seem to relax when I'm out in the woods. I know even tho the cougar population has exploded over the last few years, the odds are I'd never be attacked and/or stalked again. But that doesn't make me feel any safer. I really hate the feeling that I'm being watched while I'm fishing. So I'm considering buying a gun, for my peace of mind. (But then I've got the gun to worry about when I'm not home.) Any advice and/or insights about the wisdom of buying a gun or the plausibility of the above stories.???
     
  14. Kent Lufkin

    Kent Lufkin Remember when you could remember everything?

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    Great post. See the first post in this thread.

    K
     
  15. Mike T

    Mike T Active Member

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    Phlyfisher-

    Grizzly's foreheads are sloped and their skulls amazingly thick. This sounds entirely plausible. I've heard of other stories like this.

    Re Kodiaks, they're huge, programmed to pack on the calories and very smart. I'd believe this story.

    Consider Grizzlies and Kodiaks to be about as well armored as a rhino or stryker vehicle. The head is thick and sloped on all sides, the hide is thick with fur and fat very tough to get to the vitals. They're well protected against a man with anything less than a rifle or a shot gun at close range with buckshot or a slug.

    IMHO the problem with a handgun that would kill a grizzly is that you have to hit a fast moving target with your body undergoing an adrenaline dump the likes of which only a combat veteran would have experienced. You have maybes six 300 grain bullets to hit this animal. Those odds aren't good. Most men can handle a 38 to 45 with little training, but an effective handgun round for a Grizzly would require at least a .460 or .500 cal round. They're total hand cannons and not easy to master. Couple that with a cost per round of $3 not many people will practice to become proficient.

    Re cougars you'd be good with a 40 S&W or larger using ball ammo. The key with Cougars is not to trigger that chase mechanism in them. You did the right thing to stay calm. the only thing you could have done better is make yourself larger somehow. Do this and you'll likely never need to resort to your firearm. Cougars are like other predators they somehow know not to get injured and go for hte weakest prey. Another option is to bring a buddy fishing who's in worse shape than you, all you have to do is outrun him not the cougar.

    One note of caution, people get hurt going to guns in high stress situations when they're not used to that and only practice once a year or so at the range. If you do get one I suggest you shoot competitions like IDPA so you can get the sense of what it is to shoot on the move, reload under slight stress and hit your targets when you're breathing hard crouching or lying down. It's much different from standing at a bench at your range. If you want to test this go to your range unload your gear then go out and sprint once around the parking lot then go back in and try to hit a stationary target at 15 yards.