Thoughts on killing the record steelhead, fallout and ruminations:

Discussion in 'Steelhead' started by Zen Piscator, Mar 9, 2009.

  1. Ethan G.

    Ethan G. I do science.. on fish..

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    Just because it's legal doesn't mean it is morally right. That's the last thing I'm gonna say on this.
    -Ethan
     
  2. Mark Moore

    Mark Moore Just a Member

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    In all reality, the only way to assure the recovery of these stocks to place a temporary moratorium on fishing for them. It sucks but C&R, for stocks this jeopardized, is Russian Roulette.

    This situation could have been avoided if the IFGA would take the position that no new world record will be recognized for ESA listed species.

    For me, I am just not sure I want to fish for the damn things anymore.:(
     
  3. Mark Moore

    Mark Moore Just a Member

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    Good post...except for this.:beathead:
     
  4. Dustin Bise

    Dustin Bise Active Member

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    what man... its capitalism!! :ray1:
     
  5. Buck

    Buck "Ride'n Dirty."

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    WTF, the guy caught a legal fish? What a stupid poem.
     
  6. Mark Moore

    Mark Moore Just a Member

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    OK, so after I post I start looking all over the web for this story and what I see is INSANE!

    People are threatening this guy's physical well being, I mean come on people this is out of control. None of us where there and know the truth about the condition of the fish. The poor guy won't be able to go out in public for years.

    Irrespective of what he has posted about the circumstances, which seem credible to me, based on a simple Google search I discovered the guy is a serious, committed conservationist. He belongs to a number of conservation organizations and even petitioned the state to plant carp in a local pond.

    Breathe people, breathe.
     
  7. Zen Piscator

    Zen Piscator Supporting wild steelhead, gravel to gravel.

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    I don't care if the act was legal. It was the wrong thing to do. It reminds me of a favorite passage in The Earth is Enough by Middleton:

    "Everything went black and then a sun like no other sun i had seen, a sun of boiling reds and rusty oranges, rose over a land I did not recognize. Suddenly there was a naked creature with long black hair and somber eyes standing at the edge of a great green forest that stretched without a break to the horizon. The creature has an eagle feather in its hair.

    "Preacher, I knew instantly that that creature was man. It was us. Nature had spit us out as if we were something sour, unnatural, tainted, grotesque. And the creature took the eagle feather from its hair and flung it to the ground, stomped on it, took an oath of revenge on the earth, the earth that would not let him back in. The man had a troubled heart and sought to soothe it by conquering the earth, subduing it. He would be the highest creature of them all. He would be king, the earth's master. But you know, your Eminence, even his own kind would turn on him, bring him bad news. Soon, that dolt Copernicus would tell him that this world wasn't the center of the universe, that everything did not revolve about him in a contrite submission. And that dumpy, scruffy-looking limey Darwin would spring the surprise of evolution on him, kick him out of the lap of the gods and into the trees with the apes. And that nut case Freud hurt man most of all, shattering his moral heart and mind, letting him know that he was instead a creature of considerable perversion. A troubled creature indeed."
    -Elias Wonder, 1969
     
  8. Flyborg

    Flyborg Active Member

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    The general irrational response is warranted. Lack of a response would just insure that people continue to do this and think it's OK (see Buck's post above. In what world does legality=morality? Ignorance is not an excuse.) In essence, this guys being martyred for a good cause. We clearly can't win politically, so the state has forced us to create a social awareness that killing wild fish is not OK by other means. Violence? That's what people resort to when they truly believe in something. Not much is going to change that, and rightly so. Violence is the one thing that keeps the true issue, overpopulation, from further destroying everything. We're just animals trying to pretend otherwise.

    The good news is that a lot of people will think twice before doing this again. Which is, after all, the point.
     
  9. slippery_whippet

    slippery_whippet Member

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    What you obviously don't understand is that asshole shit all over all of us and that you are either part of the problem or part of the solution. It may have been legal, but when did that make it right.

    Thank you Zen for being part of the solution and helping get the point across.

    --SW
     
  10. Mike (Doc) LaCombe

    Mike (Doc) LaCombe Member

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    It's sure great that none of the rest of us live in glass houses. It sounds like no one else has ever done anything they regreted. Enough is enough. I'm sure everyone has gotten the message. Release ALL wild fish and if you don't sure as hell don't tell anyone about it.


    Saint Michael
     
  11. seatownbrock

    seatownbrock Still in the 206.....

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    This guy bonked a legal fish for gods sake. I can understand that people are emotional over the issue at hand, but this is getting blown a little out of proportion.

    Let's all remember why we are here... We take great joy in throwing artificial hooks towards fish and giggle with glee when the sharp hook goes through the fish's face and is now under OUR control. Once the fish is exhausted and unable to fight anymore, we lift it from the water or not based on our clear state regulations, take a picture and place it back in the water to swim off like nothing ever happened. We then gloat in the fact we only tortured it and didn't kill it and place ourselves on a moral high ground above those evil men who legally kill these beloved creatures.

    Give me a break, we need to be emotional about our resources, but lets direct it in the right direction and go after the retention issue instead of going on a moral crusade against a conservationist who bonked 1 fish.
     
  12. Buck

    Buck "Ride'n Dirty."

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    Blah Blah, what about tribal netting? That's the real fucking problem.
    Zen, are u serious about killing fish, don't fish.
     
  13. Flyborg

    Flyborg Active Member

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    The "glass house" argument is the battle cry of moral relativists. Doesn't really apply in a debate of right and wrong.
     
  14. Andrew Kirkland

    Andrew Kirkland cuttlover

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    For this reason he should have known better! With this logic if someone is a philanthropist they have the right to kill someone, just once, because of all the good they have done prior to committing murder.
     
  15. Flyborg

    Flyborg Active Member

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    Tribal netting is a part of the problem that we have very little influence over. What we can influence is C&R practice and attitudes of fellow anglers on the river. Are you oversimplifying the issue on purpose? Or are you just venting some personal beef with Zen? I know you're not dense, just trying to figure out why you're trying so hard to be.