Tipping a guide...

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Jonathan Gardner, Jul 30, 2007.

  1. SpeySpaz

    SpeySpaz still an authority on nothing

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    "argue for your limitations, and you get to keep them."
    -Richard Bach





    (aside from andycarey's 4 wise points)
    I'm waiting with bated breath for the NEW insights bound to arrive on page 6 or 7 of this travesty.:rofl:
     
  2. Jmills81

    Jmills81 The Dude Abides

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    good gawd damn, this sure turned into a pissing match

    All I know is the guys I have been with and have busted their ass, and have shown me a thing or two and or advanced my knowledge, you bet your ass I rewarded that hard work

    I did have a guy once who was an asshole, but taught me a lot....sure was worth the tip i gave him
     
  3. Jergens

    Jergens AKA Joe Willauer

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    are you referring to our trip to the ronde? i thought you were the guide for that?? :rofl:
     
  4. ReelFlyBro

    ReelFlyBro Team Short Bus

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    wow, intense. got some high rollers here, hahaha. I dont know much about it really. Say a fly shop charges 350-400 for one person on a drift boat all day, like 9am to 4 pm. how much does the guide make off this 350-400 charge?
     
  5. Brett Angel

    Brett Angel Member

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    In my opinion, guides are not in the service industry. Last time I was with a guide he didn't serve me anything or provide me with a finished product. Instead, I see them as consultants. I paid him to share his knowledge and tell me were and how to fish the particular river we were on.

    For comparison a consultant with 10 years experience charges roughly $100-150/hr (very broad generalization) and does not provide supplies and equipment. Compare this to a guide with the same number of years experience who charges $400/day and provides supplies, equipment, transportation, etc. Do the math and guides are charging a cut-rate price for their advice.

    You might say, "it's fishing and I wouldn't pay $100/hr to show me how to fish", and I would tell you to then go spend the hours, days, years it took the guide to get his experience. It would cost me a fortune to take a summer off to fish, let alone years.

    This is just an alternative analogy. I don’t' have the time to cover every single variable involved so before the trolls fire up the key boards just remember I'm not here to argue semantics. I'm not a guide, outfitter, or any other way related to the fishing industry, but I do tip guides.
     
  6. SpeySpaz

    SpeySpaz still an authority on nothing

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    Well Brett, that would be a useful thing to look at.
    I don't know of any consultants who are tipped on a regular basis. They charge what they're worth up front. I imagine some might be insulted if you offered a tip.

    when I try to list folks who can reasonably expect a gratuity with many/most transactions,
    I think of waitresses, doormen, bellhops at the airport, cab drivers, maids...help me out here, are there some folks on the technical/professional tier who get tips too?

    BTW, I've tipped every guide and deckhand without fail, because when in Rome you do as the Romans do...which I think entitles me to ask the simple theoretical question I am asking.

    the dichotomy here is this-guides claiming to be specialists of a sort, and professionals, but subscribing to a pay structure that screams "service industry" like the other jobs I mentioned above.
    What seems to be pissing everyone off is that I say if you are a professional, a consultant, and you have high-level skills to offer, then consider structuring your business practice, including fee-for-service, along the same lines.

    also BTW, I have a lot of respect for guides, their knowledge, what they do; but we wouldn't be a forward-thinking forum if we didn't question the assumptions of our sport once in awhile, would we?:D
    peace,
    Bob
     
  7. Brett Angel

    Brett Angel Member

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    Consultants don't get tips because they milk the client upfront:rofl:, but they do get bonuses at the end of the year which is usually a percentage of their profit margin for that year. I don't expect a bonus, but I would be PISSED if I didn't get one.

    This is just a guess, but if they charged a realistic $$/hr based on experience they wouldn't get clients, but charging a flat rate and "hoping" a tip is included provides them with a "steady" (I use this term loosely here) flow of income.

    I don't doubt your respect and there always needs to be a "devil's advocate". That's why I posted.:beer2:

    -Brett
     
  8. cj6530

    cj6530 Member

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    The difference is VARIABLE SERVICE. Floating down a river with a guide results in variable service. A guide can do alot of things in that float to provide variable service to increase you enjoyment. He can row bank to bank more....He can make a better lunch....he can change more flies.....he can have better equipment.....he do all sorts of things. An accountant cannot provide variable service when doing your taxes. Tipping him will not result in a better number thus making your experience better. I think what is "pissing" people off is the analogy you are using for your argument is not correct.
     
  9. Mike Ediger

    Mike Ediger Active Member

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    It seems most of the guides on this thread have disagreed with you and have stated that their service isn't variable. You have repeatedly stated that it is an incentive to have them work hard, which goes along with your variable arguement. Aren't you saying that if they don't get tipped they don't provide as high level of service, or they don't work as hard? If they don't get tipped aren't you saying they will make a worse lunch, change fewer flies, use worse equipment?
    Most guides have stated they work their tail off regardless, which is why it seems a tip is for appreciation, not to influence the variable service.
     
  10. SpeySpaz

    SpeySpaz still an authority on nothing

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    "milk the client up front"...:rofl:
    Brett, you're cracking me up:thumb:
    regards,
    Bob
     
  11. cj6530

    cj6530 Member

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    I give up. You should read this book though.
    http://freakonomicsbook.com/thebook/
     
  12. Gary Thompson

    Gary Thompson dirty dog

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    I have been on one guided bone fishing trip and the services told me up front what to tip my guide.
    $500.00 for the boat for the day $50.00 to the guide.
    My guide was my friend in about 5 min. we had a great day on the water and I boated two bones, all the others were LDRs.
    I think $500.00 for a day on the water was way over the top, but there were no other guides that I knew of that charged less.
    When I go to the Bahamas now I go unguided, and I catch more fish but I'm boatless. The cost of a boat is big.
    The cost of learning how to catch bone fish is priceless.

    Having a small business is a big expence.
    As a client we don't see all the cost involved in taking someone out in a boat for a day.
    I would say a 10% tip is the least you can do for our guide, unless he is an ass hat and runs over the shore guys lines or low holes others, etc.
     
  13. SpeySpaz

    SpeySpaz still an authority on nothing

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    It was asked earlier in the thread, how much of a 350-450$ trip actually goes to the guide?
    say, a guide booking through a shop. using his own drift boat.
     
  14. Paul Huffman

    Paul Huffman Lagging economic indicator

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    This thread got me thinking about this scene from the Simpsons' :

    Homer takes Lisa to the museum and sees the sign,
    `Suggested donation: $4.50'.

    Homer: Eh, what do you mean by `suggested donation'?
    Clerk: Pay any amount you wish, sir.
    Homer: And uh, what if I wish to pay ... zero?
    Clerk: That is up to you.
    Homer: Ooh, so it's up to me, is it?
    Clerk: Yes.
    Homer: I see. And you think that people are going to pay
    you $4.50 even though they don't have to?
    Just out of the goodness of their... [laughs]
    Well, anything you say! Good luck, lady, you're gonna need it!
     
  15. Paul Huffman

    Paul Huffman Lagging economic indicator

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    I thought those guides that worked real hard to go behind me when I'm bank fishing where just bing nice. You mean they were just working on their tip? ;)