Tube Intruder Help.... Please

Discussion in 'Fly Tying' started by Jeff Dodd, Dec 26, 2010.

  1. Jergens

    Jergens AKA Joe Willauer

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    I'd just skip them if it were me Mumbles, but if you notice, all of the Ward and Howell intruders have them, and probably for good reason. That being said, I tie intruders, but rarely fish them.
     
  2. Steve Saville

    Steve Saville Active Member

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    If you're tying on a tube and leave too much tube at the front, couldn't you just cut the tube shorter, providing you didn't cover it with thread?
     
  3. Jeff Dodd

    Jeff Dodd Active Member

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    Good question Steve. This tube was copper and I considered cutting but chickened out and added eyes. Can you cut copper tubes w/o squashing the tube end?

    Regarding copper tubes:
    So far I don't enjoy tying on copper tubes. The tubes I have push the length limits of my nor-vise and still want to turn while I am tying. If the Nor Vise tips were reverse threaded it would eliminate the problem I suspect. Thread torque applies enough pressure on the vise tip that it screw the tip back into the vise. One this starts the tube will spin, usually while palmering or whip finish or another inopportune time.

    Possilby I tie with too heavy a hand.
     
  4. Steve Saville

    Steve Saville Active Member

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    I think you coud roll the tube with a knife on top and cut through the copper if you did it gently. I would also try to find a small dowel to insert in the tube to keep it from crushing. You may have to sand it down a bit. I'd try it with a section of tube just to find out. Try using a razor type knife like a drywall knife or retractable blade utility knife. It won't do much for your blade but it may work once in a while when you make a mistake.
     
  5. Paul Huffman

    Paul Huffman Driven by irrational exuberance.

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    Jeff - sounds like you and I are both at the same spot, trying to figure out if tubes can help, and how to tie intruders. http://www.washingtonflyfishing.com/board/showthread.php/73588-Pros-and-cons-of-tying-on-tubes

    What I'm trying to figure out now is what kind of hackle to I use on the "wings". The new wife got me a purple dyed grizzley neck, but it seems like most of the hackles long enough are too broad. Are saddle hackles better? Can you get by with #2 saddle patches since you don't need them to be dry fly quality with very little web?
     
  6. Kerfwappie

    Kerfwappie Member

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    I dig that tube tying vise. Is that drill chuck? In the video.
     
  7. Jergens

    Jergens AKA Joe Willauer

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  8. g_smolt

    g_smolt Recreational User

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    One of the problems that I have encountered when fishing dorsal/ventral tube flies (think Howell's intruder) is the tendency for the fly to ride on its side, regardless of the weight of the eyes or tube. I have to believe that this is a function of the longitudinal center of gravity of the fly, and the fact that the pull comes from so close to said center. This isn't a problem with up-eyed shanks, especially if they are rigged with junction tubing; the line pull comes from a comparatively distant point above the center of gravity, thus making the fly ride "right".

    As far as intruder construction goes, it is helpful to remember that the end-goal of the tie is to create a large silhouette with very sparse application of materials, and to achieve the ever-tantalizing "pulse" that seems to be the hallmark of the genre. To this end, pick materials that fit the bill: Arctic fox, rhea, amherst centers, ostrich herl tips...the list goes on, but all of the materials used should have an inherent "stiffness" that prevents their collapse when they are swung, but allows for movement.

    When it comes right down to it, any of the flies posted can and will catch fish, but with a little more more attention to materials, a fella can wind up with a much bigger profile with a whole lot less material.

    This is my version on HMH microtube...
    From the back, forward - lite-brite butt, arctic fox in a dubbing loop as a flaring mechanism for the rhea and amherst hackle. Black wool dubbing with an orange counter-wrap for contrast, then another arctic fox / rhea / amherst hackle. Flashabou in the round for a little bit of sparkle, then a rabbit dubbing loop over dazl-eyes for a big, bulky head that makes a backwash big enough to wiggle the fly.
    [​IMG]
     
  9. Paul Huffman

    Paul Huffman Driven by irrational exuberance.

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    g_smolt - Do you split the Amherst stem and wrap or do you place bundles of Amherst clipped off the stem?
     
  10. g_smolt

    g_smolt Recreational User

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    Neither.

    The amherst goes into a dubbing loop with the rhea.
     
  11. Ed Call

    Ed Call Mumbling Moderator Staff Member

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    g_smolt, awesome fly, thanks for the explanation too. I'm going to try to tie some of those.
     
  12. Paul Huffman

    Paul Huffman Driven by irrational exuberance.

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    Trying some ideas from g_smolt and from http://www.salmonflies.net/fly574.html UV pearl ice dub butt, rear hackle pink Amherst and purple arctic fox in a dubbing loop, purple cactus chenille body, some black deer hair spun and clipped to a small muddler head, another dubbing loop on Amherst and arctic fox, some throat feathers from a white heron for feelers and a purple cactus chenille head over barbell eyes. On a plastic tube.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Jeff Dodd

    Jeff Dodd Active Member

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    Nice fly Paul. With the tube attachment off I tied green butt skunk yesterday. However I was in the "City" over the weekend and made it to a fly shop. I now have amherst and Rhea along with an actual dubbing-loop spinning tool to replace the dentist pick I've been using. Looking to tie more intruders this week.
     
  14. Philster

    Philster Active Member

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    Such a nice production! Fantastic. I would add just a little bit of Intruder philosophy. Back before it was so universally known, Ed usually had a deer hair collar like the Huffman one above. The idea was the collar would kick up turbulence adding motion to the soft materials and keeping the ostrich from looking like pencil in the water when under tension. There was no concern about the buoyancy, because of the way he fished the intruder. He didn't try to hit them between eyes. It was big and bad enough that they moved to it. He often fished it over the top of the boulder fields. So while lead eyes and deer hair may seem counterintuitive, it was a critical design element. Now of course with fishing guys there is no "always", and some of his didn't have it, but most did. The one in the video has a fur collar for bulk, and it's a great compromise between the two approaches. Tie some with a deer/elk collar behind the eyes. swim both of them and watch how they move. Make your own decision on how many of each you want. All of mine have it. I just string together multiple tube marabou flies if I want length without the intruder wiggle.
     
  15. Paul Huffman

    Paul Huffman Driven by irrational exuberance.

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    I really like the ostrich "spey plumes" from Hareline. No need for a dubbing loop. I just use the tip are far down as seems flexible and wrap like a hackle. The tips move like marabou but they are more erect. Cabela's has three colors available in their Budget Barn: http://www.cabelas.com/product/Spey-Plumes/728607.uts?Ntk=AllProducts&searchPath=%2Fcatalog%2Fsearch.cmd%3Fform_state%3DsearchForm%26N%3D0%26fsch%3Dtrue%26Ntk%3DAllProducts%26Ntt%3Dspey%2Bplumes%26x%3D15%26y%3D9&Ntt=spey+plumes&WTz_l=Unknown Cabela's picture looks a lot like cheap marabou, but what they sent was 10 ostrich plumes in each pack.

    I use them for tying up fish tacos in several colors. They look good in the water, but I haven't caught anything yet.