Up one line? Two?

Just relax on the beach. When I start really thinking hard about it and trying to focus on distance, and putting some extra muscle into it, that's when I tighten up and start screwing up. With more time and just relaxing, you'll start to better feel the rod loading and your timing and stroke should be easier to fine tune. That said, each time I hit the beach, I start out just fishing and relaxing, but at some point, when I'm tired of focusing on the fishing, I just start trying to bomb out some distance casts just to see how far I can get. That's when I hit myself in the head, or get a wind knot. But each time I get a little better, and then when I go back to relaxing and fishing, my casting is just a tiny bit improved.

Another perspective . . . sometimes it just ain't happening. I don't know about the rest of you, but I certainly have some days that are better than others.
 

Flyborg

Active Member
Philster, you've mentioned the Belgian cast a few times. I'm going to seek it out. Being self taught I don't know names of casts and techniques that I often employ. I do have a method of casting in a more circular fashion that I find helps me in some different situations. If you have any suggested resources on this casting style, let me know. Thanks. (I will likely be getting some formal casting instruction too).
Check out This Tutorial by Mac Lord.
 

Ed Call

Well-Known Member
Thanks Flyborg, I think that I had stumbled upon a similar practice on my own. This will allow me to refine what I have been doing for sure. Self taught casters sometimes figure out well established casting techniques...but maybe through a lot more trial and error. Anyway, thankg again!
 
try it sitting on your ass... Seriously...
Yep, was gonna try that too...and kneeling...and sitting in a folding stool...lying on my back...kicked back in a recliner with a cold one, oh wait...,that's afterwards :D!!

Seriously tho, thanks Philster, I was/am gonna try that...:thumb:

JC:)
 
Just relax on the beach. When I start really thinking hard about it and trying to focus on distance, and putting some extra muscle into it, that's when I tighten up and start screwing up. With more time and just relaxing, you'll start to better feel the rod loading and your timing and stroke should be easier to fine tune. That said, each time I hit the beach, I start out just fishing and relaxing, but at some point, when I'm tired of focusing on the fishing, I just start trying to bomb out some distance casts just to see how far I can get. That's when I hit myself in the head, or get a wind knot. But each time I get a little better, and then when I go back to relaxing and fishing, my casting is just a tiny bit improved.
iagree...so true - and the worse it gets, the worse it gets!!! I've been conscious of the fact that the easier and more effortless it is, the better and farther the cast is...:cool:

Too hot last night to practice at the park:mad:!

JC
 
Another perspective . . . sometimes it just ain't happening. I don't know about the rest of you, but I certainly have some days that are better than others.

I don't wanna admit to that....'cuz that means I'm not in control of my own, uhm, destiny or something like that......:D!

JC
 
The only criteria of any importance when choosing a head are the actual weight and length of the line.

What the AFTM rating says is irrelevant.

Why people are more or less totally fixated on AFTM ratings for shooting heads is a complete puzzle.
Because there needs to be some type of consistent basis, some relative measure.

I think what you're trying to say is what really matters, without sticking to the numbers as the ultimate guide, is how the rod and the shooting head relate to each other, irrespective of the line weight reference on the rod or the head.

In the same line weights, even in the same rod models, often each rod will be individual. I remember years ago Stonefish picked up a GLX 8 weight that really seemed more like a 6.5 weight. I had (have) a GLX 8 weight, and the two rods were hugely different. Even though they were both labeled as 8 weights, obviously they would respond differently to the same lines.
 
I am not TRYING to say anything, I said what I meant. I was unaware that I needed an interpreter.

Any rod will cast a specific weight best. A shooting head of that specific weight will cast best of all, when the whole head is aerialised.

Total performance depends on the type and length of head, floating, intermediate, sinking, and the caster´s skill.

That is basically all there is to it. It makes no difference at all what any AFTM ratings say.

They only apply to lines anyway. Unfortunately quite a few manufacturers no longer adhere to them, making them even more useless than they already were.

Rod ratings are completely subjective, and there is no standard.

The AFTM ratings were only of use to those people trying to find a very rough match for their rods, before tuning the heads as required. This is best done by cutting down a suitable DT line.

May be of interest;

http://www.mike1.bplaced.net/Wikka/RodLoading

Also;

http://www.mike1.bplaced.net/Wikka/ShootHead

To find the optimum casting weight for any rod, mount a fixed spool reel, and start casting lead weights, incrementing the weight as you cast. The optimum casting weight is reached when you can cast a lead weight the farthest.

If you go too heavy the rod will be sluggish and you wont cast as far. If you go too light it wont cast as far either.

Once you have found the optimum weight, you can look at the AFTM table to find a line which will roughly match that weight in the length you require. The weight you have found by casting lead will be equivalent to casting a high density sinker.

If you wish to cast an intermediate or a floater, then you can go slightly heavier if you wish, as these do not load the rod as much. (Or move as fast in air). This also needs to be tested. Once you know the weights required for any given type of line, you can IMMEDIATELY match any line perfectly to that rod, for weight and length.

This will result in an optimum head for your purpose, without any guesswork, or a lot of nonsense with AFTM ratings or ready made shooting heads, which is extremely unlikely to match your rod anyway. The chances of it doing so are astronomically small.
http://www.mike1.bplaced.net/Wikka/RodLoading

iagree...as if I needed further proof of my imbecilic, moronic math abilities...:rolleyes:

JC:beathead::beathead:
 

Philster

Active Member
To find the optimum casting weight for any rod, mount a fixed spool reel, and start casting lead weights, incrementing the weight as you cast. The optimum casting weight is reached when you can cast a lead weight the farthest.
.
Your suggestion ignores how the weight is distributed, and the density of the weight matters as well. a lead weight delivers its energy immediately and carris through the air like, well a lead weight. Its profile, drag coefficient, everything remains consistent. An unrolling fly line reacts completely differently especially in the way it accepts and delivers the energy of the cast. Trajectory, air resistance, everything is different. compare a small clouser and a larger deceiver that weigh the same. Cast each of them on a 12 foot leader. The physics are completely different, just as the physics of a lead weight on 8 pound test mono is physically different than a fly line with a running line. A short head vs. an extremely long one makes a huge difference. Look at spey line "ratings" They have different ones for different length lines. Extremely long lines are much heavier than than short heads. Yes spey casting is a different game, but it still relies on the rod storing, and transferring energy to the line. A shorter line will give the sensation of compressing the weight you are throwing and feels as though it's loading the rod more deeply than a longer line of the same weight. I'm not a physicist, but I can tell you from experience that it just does. Some american custom builders are labelling their rods with "grain windows" now in recognition of these issues. Different weight results in different actions, but within a given "action" in the feel of the road, shorter can be lighter, longer can be heavier without significantly affecting the action.

To find the optimum casting weight for a "shooting head" by far the most direct and efficient approach is to start at the line weight the manufacturer suggests your rod is rated for, and go up two sizes. If this feels too light for a shooting head style cast, go up three. On a 7 start with an AFTMA rated 9 weight 30 foot length of line. If you don't get optimum distance go up to a 10. Now these outbounds and such are a different animal, and theoretically the conversion has been done for you already, although Richard and others seem to feel the airflo is often worthy of uplining one size. I frankly believe Richard when he says that. The Bastard owes me flies, but he can fish... Just kidding Richard, I've been too busy to respond about getting my flies back, what with summer and the kids and all:p

It seems like your procedure is overthinking the problem. Throw your lead weight, and use that as a starting point to select your line. Unfortunately I see precious few folks fishing who actually know how to cast a spinning rod when I go out, which is a whole other issue. I don't really see a disadvantage to taking the manufacturers opinion of a rod's rating as the starting point for selecting lines. Either way you test cast line and go up or down from there...

Maye I'm missing something. Perhaps it's something a really "keen" fisherman might do to take more ownership of the process of line selection. Personally I'm taking every bit of help I can get from the manufacturers and people I know and trust. It's easier and cheaper in the long run in my experience.

Unlike you, I probably do need a translator for what I just spewed out to make sense... But it makes sense to me!:thumb:
 
I am not TRYING to say anything, I said what I meant. I was unaware that I needed an interpreter.

Any rod will cast a specific weight best. A shooting head of that specific weight will cast best of all, when the whole head is aerialised.

Total performance depends on the type and length of head, floating, intermediate, sinking, and the caster´s skill.

That is basically all there is to it. It makes no difference at all what any AFTM ratings say.

They only apply to lines anyway. Unfortunately quite a few manufacturers no longer adhere to them, making them even more useless than they already were.

Rod ratings are completely subjective, and there is no standard.

The AFTM ratings were only of use to those people trying to find a very rough match for their rods, before tuning the heads as required. This is best done by cutting down a suitable DT line.

May be of interest;

http://www.mike1.bplaced.net/Wikka/RodLoading

Also;

http://www.mike1.bplaced.net/Wikka/ShootHead

To find the optimum casting weight for any rod, mount a fixed spool reel, and start casting lead weights, incrementing the weight as you cast. The optimum casting weight is reached when you can cast a lead weight the farthest.

If you go too heavy the rod will be sluggish and you wont cast as far. If you go too light it wont cast as far either.

Once you have found the optimum weight, you can look at the AFTM table to find a line which will roughly match that weight in the length you require. The weight you have found by casting lead will be equivalent to casting a high density sinker.

If you wish to cast an intermediate or a floater, then you can go slightly heavier if you wish, as these do not load the rod as much. (Or move as fast in air). This also needs to be tested. Once you know the weights required for any given type of line, you can IMMEDIATELY match any line perfectly to that rod, for weight and length.

This will result in an optimum head for your purpose, without any guesswork, or a lot of nonsense with AFTM ratings or ready made shooting heads, which is extremely unlikely to match your rod anyway. The chances of it doing so are astronomically small.
It appears you do need an interpreter, particularly when you make comments like "The only criteria of any importance when choosing a head are the actual weight and length of the line. What the AFTM rating says is irrelevant."

That makes no sense at all. That's like saying "It doesn't matter that a liter is a commonly used measure for volume, it's what you actually have that counts!".