Upcoming tides preview of rising sea levels?

Discussion in 'Saltwater' started by Jonathan Stumpf, Dec 30, 2009.

  1. johnnyrockfish

    johnnyrockfish Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2007
    Messages:
    324
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Kitsap County, WA
    Get the popcorn out...

    Did you know that the main difference between Clinton and GW Bush was that Bush wanted to leave a bad taste in everyone's mouth?:)
     
  2. riseform

    riseform Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2007
    Messages:
    1,146
    Likes Received:
    438
    Location:
    Tacoma, WA
    700 plus posts and I think I have yet to produce one that's popcorn worthy....

    My intent was to emphasize the importance of scientists not becoming politicized. Once this boundary line is crossed, the science loses credibility. As for politics, it's mostly entertainment to me (until my taxes get raised).
     
  3. Go Fish

    Go Fish Language, its a virus

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2006
    Messages:
    1,394
    Likes Received:
    240
    Location:
    Rheomode, Wa.
    When I look for information on climate and the local weather
    I go to the Dr. Cliif Mass blog (cliffmass.blogspot.com).
    Go to the archives for 2009
    and read his post on Climate Gate.

    It is a good read that puts this issue in perspective.


    Dave
     
  4. Steffan Brown

    Steffan Brown ...

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2009
    Messages:
    544
    Likes Received:
    64
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    So, do I understand you correctly, in that you believe global warming/climate change advocates will stop at nothing to defend the scientists emails that are under review? I think the point of that article was that the emails didn't change any substantiated evidence that global warming exists and is being made worse by humans. Furthermore, that some scientists from a small institution in England are not the backbone, basis or catalysts for evidence collected by scientists from around the world. The idea that these emails blow the roof off of the climate change establishment is simply naive and not giving enough credit to the scale of research that has gone into the data proving global warming to be real. Sure, there are bound to be opportunists that will want to make a buck out of capitalizing on peoples fears. This is unfortunate, unacceptable and inevitable. Whether it's politics or science, some people just cannot be trusted beyond their own selfish motivations, but that doesn't mean the hard work of those individuals working on behalf of the common good should be left in the dust and forgotten about.
     
  5. riseform

    riseform Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2007
    Messages:
    1,146
    Likes Received:
    438
    Location:
    Tacoma, WA
    Google Barbara Boxer (Email theft gate)

    To me, global warming/climate change comes down to three core issues.

    1) is it man made, nature or a combination of both?...... I don't know, but I'm willing to listen to all sides (*see below)
    2) if it is man made, can man do anything to stop it?.......nobody knows
    3) Do I trust those who would empower themselves, restrict my freedoms and further tax my income in the name of this cause...hell no

    * I'll confess, it's a lot easier for me to digest a piece like this from Howard Bloom http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704541004574599981936018834.html than it is to stomach a presentation from Al Gore. I remember the predictions of the coming ice age in the 1970s and I'll remember today's predictions in a few more decades....time will tell.
     
  6. dryflylarry

    dryflylarry "Chasing Riseforms"

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2003
    Messages:
    4,450
    Likes Received:
    1,041
    Location:
    Near the Fjord
    Answer to

    #1---- Have you ever read anything about what man has done to this planet, let alone, just look around?
    #2---- Of course we can. Bought any new energy saving lightbulbs lately? Of course, it takes some politics... oh, how terrible.
    #3---- Restrict your freedoms? Do you ever recycle? Does that restrict your freedoms?

    Pull you head out young man! :beathead:
     
  7. riseform

    riseform Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2007
    Messages:
    1,146
    Likes Received:
    438
    Location:
    Tacoma, WA
    sorry if I was too vague.... Google "cap and trade legislation"

    Look beyond the emotional "stick it to the greedy corporate polluters" schadenfreude for an analysis like this:
    "The whole point of cap and trade is to hike the price of electricity and gas so that Americans will use less. These higher prices will show up not just in electricity bills or at the gas station but in every manufactured good, from food to cars. Consumers will cut back on spending, which in turn will cut back on production, which results in fewer jobs created or higher unemployment. Low-income Americans, who devote more of their disposable income to energy, have more to lose than high-income families."

    As for the remainder of your post, addressing it further would violate the cardinal rule of debate, with one exception:
    Thank you for calling me young :thumb:
     
  8. johnnyrockfish

    johnnyrockfish Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2007
    Messages:
    324
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Kitsap County, WA
    Riseform, your friends in the opinion room at the WSJ and the Heritage Foundation have been fighting energy reform for 30+ years using the same set of arguments that you state above -"it'll be bad for the economy". Well it is obvious that ignoring energy issues is no longer an option and we're further behind the ball because of 30 years of inaction by our nation's leaders. Germany has hired all the solar power talent from the US and Europe in general is way ahead in developing creative alternatives. We've had our head stuck in the sand for 3 decades because of the thinking that you outline above which can be summed up like this: "we can't do better". Well I happen to believe that this nation does best when faced with a challenge, it's when we shine. The people you quote would rather not address the issues honestly, they're stuck in the same endless loop of "it'll hurt the economy". I'm proud that we are finally facing issues like climate change and energy independence. I'm sick of this country not seeking the highest and best goals for ourselves and the rest of the world. What makes us a great nation is our ability to rise to challenges but for the last 30 years, since President Carter, no one has asked us to step up to the challenge. The rest of the world is moving forward on energy, do we want to be a leader or a follower?
     
  9. mud sculpin

    mud sculpin New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2005
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    university place , wa.
    I agree our planet is a polluted mess and we need to take steps to clean her up, but I'm still not convinced that global warming / climate change is completely a man made problem. What happened thousands of years ago when the northern united states was covered with glaciers and then melted ? What made them melt back then... I dont think humans contributed to that global warm up period .... i'm more inclined to think that solar output is more of a factor in the rise and fall of global temps than we are... just my two cents......
     
  10. johnnyrockfish

    johnnyrockfish Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2007
    Messages:
    324
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Kitsap County, WA
    Mudsculpin I agree with both points of your post. I don't think we can "prove" that we've contributed to climate change since we weren't collecting baseline data 10,000 years ago, those lazy cavemen! Your first point is the more relevant to me, we should challenge ourselves and the world community to reduce our emissions since we know it's not good for us. The basic question is not whether we've created climate change but rather if we're interested in reducing the pollution we spew into the world we live in. We've come a long way since Nixon signed the Clean Air Act and we should be proud of it and keep pushing ourselves.
     
  11. gt

    gt Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2005
    Messages:
    2,617
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    sequim, WA
    for you who believe that this is an earth 'cycle', you must then ask yourself the question regarding just why things are changing at the current rate. sure its absolutely true that we had multiple ice age events. yes, its true our planet continues to shape and re-shape itself. however, the geology of this planet is hundreds of thousands of years old. what we are seeing regarding climate change right now is taking place in your and my lifetime, that is unprecidented. the obvious conclusion must be that 'something' is causing or contributing to this rapid acceleration in climate change. you can pick your favorite target, but denying that this change is in accelerated mode is simply putting your head in the sand.

    the oil and gas industries have fought a pitched battle for decades to obscure the facts in all of this. just as they kaboshed any research into vehicles that are way more efficient, they are putting out one false story after another trying to raise doubt regarding climate change. why? money is why, they have all they need right now and as corporate greed goes, these guys wrote the book.

    embracing climate change as a reality will and can lead to the energy breakthroughs that would temper this global problem. other countries have already stepped up on their own behalfs and done just that. we remain the only first level player who refuses to move pass the lobyists and actually look toward our collective future. time to start asking your elected officials just why they can't deliver on clean, sustainable energy. of couse these are the same bozos who can't provide affordable health care either.

    i guess your young folks with small children are doomed..............
     
  12. Salty Fly

    Salty Fly Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2006
    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Federal Way
  13. Steffan Brown

    Steffan Brown ...

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2009
    Messages:
    544
    Likes Received:
    64
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Really!?! This is your source???? Just kidding... Although the obvious thing to do would be to attack your source as being one of the single most slanted news affiliates in the country, MSNBC being just as bad to the opposing side of the spectrum, that's not what I'm going to do. However, this guy is forgetting about a little something we call El Nino. Which so far the trends in weather and climate we've seen are exactly what was predicted would be the case during an El Nino year. "For the contiguous United States, potential El NiƱo impacts include above-average precipitation for the southern tier of the country, with below-average precipitation in the Pacific Northwest and in the Ohio and Tennessee Valleys. Below-average snowfall and above-average temperatures are most likely across the northern tier of states (excluding New England), while below-average temperatures are favored for the south-central and southeastern states." http://www.cpc.noaa.gov/products/analysis_monitoring/enso_advisory/ensodisc.html
     
  14. Salty Fly

    Salty Fly Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2006
    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Federal Way
    No matter what science you believe you have to admit its kinda funny that a global warming "expert" is predicting a 30 year mini ice age.
     
  15. gt

    gt Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2005
    Messages:
    2,617
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    sequim, WA
    salty fly, think CLIMATE CHANGE!!!!! that means it could be hotter or colder depending on where in the world you happen to live. and i don't find anything funny about this notion or the potential consequences.