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Upland dogs

5K views 55 replies 24 participants last post by  GSVette 
#1 ·
Who has a lab and uses it for upland?

Do you use it exclusively for upland?

I am looking for a great family dog and, mainly used for upland hunting and a fishing companion. Thinking about a lab or English Setter and I know they are quite different. Any advice and thoughts would be appreciated.
 
#30 ·
Well, I am getting close to be a new dog owner soon. It has been eighteen years since my last dog and am looking for any good ideas on what I need before I bring her home. I have a bed, collar, and leash but what else do I need? Crate (what kind), food?

Any and all ideas welcome.
 
#46 ·
Well, I am getting close to be a new dog owner soon. It has been eighteen years since my last dog and am looking for any good ideas on what I need before I bring her home. I have a bed, collar, and leash but what else do I need? Crate (what kind), food?

Any and all ideas welcome.
New dogs need structure. Definitely get a crate - doesn't really matter what kind, as long as they can't get out or run back and forth a ton (if the crate is sized for how big you anticipate, you can put a carboard or similar wall in teh crate - you want the crate to be "lie down and relax" time, not "run in circles and complain!" time. Never take the dog out of their crate for the first couple/six months without being on collar, leash, and in-hand - unless it's literally play-time and you should plan for that and have a plan of how much is too much, too!

Working dogs have a TON of energy, and that means you need to "wear them out" regularly with both physical AND mental exercise! Dogs under a year old shouldn't be taken on lots of long walks (especially on hard surfaces like roads and sidewalks) while their joints and bones are developing but that doesn't mean they can't be worn out via play, training, a trip to the off-leash park (with careful supervision at an early age,) etc.. My boxer can hike for 10 miles with me and then come home and get bored and want to tug-of-war at 10pm - but if I spend 30 minutes working on commands etc with her, she'll be tuckered out right away.

Don't ever let your dog off-leash until you're 110% sure of our recall command - if they won't "halt!" or "leave it!" or "come!" or "heel in!" without a leash, then you need to work with on-leash training more - start with a 4 foot or 6 foot (I prefer 4 foot because ti allows for less tugging way out ahead, and gets tangled underfoot less often) and eventually pick up one of those 15' training leashes - that'll be more than enough to work most of your sport and behavior training while keeping them in-hand.

Never leave your dog alone in the house without them being crated - there is no reason to leave them wandering around, jumping up onto couches, getting into the trash,e tc, and the less unsupervised time they have to get into trouble, the less trouble they'll positively reinforce themselves into getting into before you've caught them and tried to deal with it! My dog will piddle on the carpet if I leave her alone in the house for more than an hour or two, but she'll happily stay in her crate 6-10 hours a day as long as she knows that it means a regular routine where she gets to potty (and not get fed) before being crated, gets food and attention as soon as she's let out, and knows that nobody will ever, ever mess with her negatively while she's in her bed (I've literally kicked people and their kids out of my house for refusing to treat my dog in the manner I requested they act - and if your kid crawls into my dog's crate and gets bit, that's on you, not me!)
 
#31 ·
It seems like you were up in the air between a pointing dog and a retriever/flusher, so whenever you make that decision I'd vet out a training program and get that read/watched and sorted out before the pup gets home. Once that's done, if you can find a training group in your area and have the free time, get together with them and chat dogs and plant birds and you'll be money ahead for your own critter come game time.

Whenever you do pick a breed and kennel I'd ask them about food (like arguing cars, or what's better blondes, brunettes, or redheads with people...) when to introduce an ecollar, that sort of stuff as they'll know the temperament of their dogs (and you can plan on the expense then down the road)
 
#34 ·
That's awesome! I hope you really enjoy your new pup. BTW, posting photos of your puppy is NOT optional!

I always used VariKennels, but they can get hot in really warm temps. I've also used the wire crates in the house but would never use one in a vehicle (the ones I've had weren't sturdy enough and they can put their paws through, which would be really bad in a crash). If you are going to use the crate for crate/potty training a puppy, definitely read up on it. One mistake people often make is getting a crate to fit the full grown dog. That gives the pup enough room to go potty in a corner, defeating the purpose. It also has a less cozy, comforting cave-like feel to the puppy. If you go with a large crate from the get-go, you must block the extra space off so the puppy can't use it. If you are diligent with the crate/potty training, it works like a charm.

Another mistake I've seen people make is using 'Get in your crate!' as a form of punishment. The dog then develops an aversion to it and when you want/need them to go in the crate, you can't drag them in. I've always treated the crates like their sanctuary and left the door open when they got older. If you couldn't find one of them, sure enough they'd be in their little nest taking a nap. When we needed to put them in, a simple 'kennel up' command got them in with no drama.
 
#35 · (Edited)
I used Vari-Kennels when Hank was a pup (note: I typed "kennels;" one size doesn't fit all phases of growth. I started with a smaller-sized box <actually blocking part of that off when Hank was wee-little during the crate-training stage> & bought a larger crate as he approached full-size.). I also bought a wire fold-up kennel to use when I arrived at my destination when travelling - very handy!

And to tag-on my 2-cents-worth to a previous post . . . I used whistles for years, until I saw another hunter's dog get struck by a train because it couldn't hear the whistle command in a stiff headwind. I started using electronic collars after that. Used properly & incorporated into the training regimen, they are an invaluable tool, imho. I can stop Hank on a dime, bring him back, and change his direction using either the "tone" function or with "low-to-barely-negligible-momentary-stimulation" depending on circumstances, in wind or no wind. Whenever I pick-up a collar, Hank is right there, sitting with his head up to receive it, as the collars have ALWAYS been associated with good things (rides/hunting/playtime/training/etc.).

As far as discipline goes, I have always disciplined my dogs by ignoring them. Dogs are extremely social creatures & their most intense desire is to please. It works like a charm.
 
#36 ·
Thanks for the input on crates and training. I will show pictures when I bring her home. The one I have been looking at is a six month old that has had a little training but not much indoors. I will use the crate for house training, traveling and to provide a safe place for my dog.

I have also been learning the techniques of the breeder/trainer and watching numerous videos. However, there is a lot to learn and I appreciate hearing everyone else's opinions.

Thanks
 
#37 · (Edited)
I have 2 crates, one of the wire foldable ones for in the house and a vari kennel for in the rig. The vari kennel is getting beat up and will be replaced by a Ruff Tough: http://www.rufftoughkennels.com/ next year. Cabelas carries them as well if you're keen to throw an eyeball on one.
I don't think there isn't any reason you can't find a used crate and bleach it out well (craigslist) to start off. Without knowing your budget, a 6 month old dog needs to see birds now (you'll be shooting birds over her this season), which to me would mean my money would be spent on training, gas, and birds at this point in the game.

6 months old is about the age you'd want a normal pointer to see a collar, definitely ask the breeder and get a suggestion there, they can get spendy.

I don't know a person that's bought the perfect start/perfect finish DVD and didn't like it, but if you can build that connection with the breeder, with them being so close to you, you may just need to ask the questions and follow the suggestions/ go see them weekly.

I'll also re state my suggestion to visit the Willamette NAVHDA group. You may be an upland fan, but there will be a time when your dog needs to track and retrieve across water. A dog that's passed the UT test will hands down be the classiest dog you've seen afield, and that's something you can train for and pass with the folks you meet as you are right now.

Buy the ticket, take the ride...
 
#38 ·
That's is awesome! I also agree w the crate size. Once your dog becomes grown, I recommend two crates. I keep one in the back of the truck for travel and one in the room for bed and home. Just makes it easier.

Enjoy the pup. Use a program and stick w it. I would also recommend knowing how far you want to go w the training. As well as maki your dog a family dog first. Most people will hunt train first when in reality the dog hunts 20 days and is a family dog the other 340 ish. Manner manners manners.

Finally, with knowing how far, I mean, is the do a trial dog or a hunting dog? Some people will argue but it is a lot of pressure to make a dog steady to fall. I think a good hunting dog should be steady to flush or shot at most. Just my .02.

If you're ever over on the dry side we can go chase some birds w our good looking dogs:)
 
#41 ·
Finally, with knowing how far, I mean, is the do a trial dog or a hunting dog? Some people will argue but it is a lot of pressure to make a dog steady to fall. I think a good hunting dog should be steady to flush or shot at most. Just my .02.
I understand not wanting to train and be frustrated off an on for a Summer (so far this Summer it's been all dog work for me with very little fishing anything), but my issue with having a dog not steady is with the logic behind it. What's going to happen the first time the dog that's only partly trained sees a bush shake? Some tail feathers pop up? It's first covey flush, or a late flush? Chukar or huns in scant cover where it can see the birds moving? Another dog that it perceives as competition to the prize? Or some deer/off game scent? 99 time out of a hundred it's going to break and you'll be the guy that's going bananas on the shock collar or hacking on your dog.

I also think you'll end up with a dog that's only going to listen to you when the going is easy or it wants to, and part of the prep work for FF is having a dog that can deal with stress , knows who THE BOSS is, knows it must work as a team, all that stuff.
Part of buying a well bred dog means that you're buying something with the mental rigor to handle the higher level of stress of training, and the willingness to work with we humans (biddability) I guess I just think the dogs are capable of it (and need it to be at their best) it's more if we're up to the task/willing to do the work.

I don't want to come across as preachy or any of that, just wanted to share my thoughts and what I've seen of some high drive characters I train with; they're your dogs, do what you feel necessary, have time for, and most importantly find fun in doing.
 
#39 ·
our first SRGR (spoiled rotten golden retriever), Aspen, always wagged her tail from side to side until she was on a bird. then she'd switch to a clockwise wag-always clockwise! the wags got wound up in a tighter and tighter circle until she flushed the bird, so I always knew how much time I had to get ready for the shot! Our other two now are 10 and almost 12, so no more field work for them. Now it's just cookies, lots of pats, daily tosses of the "flinger", and the occasional hamburger. Even a steak on their birthdays! But they're my girls: what more can I say!
 
#42 ·
I hear ya, (above post), however, being steady to shot does not mean breaking when a bush moves or tail feathers shake. It means being steady until shot.

As I said, everyone has their own opinion. But I believe a dog should do as the handler wants, and I somewhat agree w the breeding statement. But, as I said, I am happy w steady to shot. Lucy won't reak on shakes, scents, and feathers. Nor should any dog that is trained appropriately if that is wha the handler wants. But not being steady to fall does not mean a frustrated handler hacking on their dog and blowing then up w the ecollar. That type of handler needs to train their dog more!

Cheers
Me
 
#43 ·
Logan - I agree with what you are saying and would only add the the handler / owner probably needs more training than the dog. Someone needs to instill the motivation and discipline in the handler / owner that systematic training in the right environment - which might mean a day devoted to driving, buying birds, purchasing remote launch pens, etc. will lead to a finished gun dog.
 
#49 ·
When I handed my Lab over to the guy who was going to train her, I told him I would need more training than she would. The trainer was a no non-sense, no bullshit Vietnam combat LRRP and I had episodes of boot camp flash backs. I am eternally grateful for his instruction.

As for Labs, my has yellow hunted waterfowl and upland birds and has done very well with both. Watching her manuver on a wild rooster pheasant is a real hoot as is seeing her launch on a two hundred yard mark in the goose field. She also enjoyed a couple of trips down the South Fork of the Snake but struggled with the concept of catch and release.

When not afield, my little bitch joined her two step sister Labs in my office providing trauma therapy to combat veterans. There was no greater joy in my life than watching a younng Iraq or aftganistan vet walk into my office for the first time. Their response to being engulfed by 200 lbs of wagging tail dogs with big grins was classic. The impression I had was my clients missed the dogs more than me when I retired, which is as it should be.

The breed of dog chosen by a family is not important to me. What is important is well grounded, basic obedience in the dog, maintained by a trained owner/handler.
 
#44 · (Edited)
<----- This is "Jake".... he's one of (about) fifteen labs my wife and I own right now. She breeds, trains and competes labs professionally... Labs are great all around family and field dogs and I highly recommend them for all of the above. But I also own two English Pointers, an English Setter and have owned and trained most hunting breeds at one time or another. Right now my male pointer "Dude" vibrates and bounces in his kennel just waiting to go for a run while his sister "Siss" keeps me company on the couch watching TV and sleeps at the foot of my bed. All three are well trained and hunt with a passion when the "switch" is turned on.

My advice is to pick a breed you like the look of and can tolerate around the house and family (you'll spend much more time with them there than hunting), condition them to be good citizens, train them to behave and hunt under control (get help if you need it), don't expect any more out of them than you're willing to put in (that takes a lot of time and effort) and enjoy your life with them. They aren't with us nearly long enough!
 
#47 ·
Well everyone, last Sunday night I brought home my new 8 month English Setter. Her name is McKenzie, after my favorite Oregon river, and we call her Kenzie for short.

As soon as I upload pictures I will post. She has been working with live pigeons and is pointing and doing a good job of whoa.

Thanks for all the advice and input folks, I appreciate the willingness to help me out.

Now, who wants to meet up this season for some bird hunting?
 
#48 ·
Well here she is, McKenzie, my new 8 month old English Setter. She and I took off to SW Montana for some fishing, play, and bonding. Again, thanks for your assistance while I researched what dog to acquire. I appreciated all of your input.

 
#50 ·
Well here she is, McKenzie, my new 8 month old English Setter. She and I took off to SW Montana for some fishing, play, and bonding. Again, thanks for your assistance while I researched what dog to acquire. I appreciated all of your input.

I'm on my third Setter after several labs. I had several good and one GREAT lab but I fell in love with dogs that point. I don't hunt ducks much anymore which probably led me to pointing dogs. After one foray into a GSP (great hunter but not very personable!) I fell in love with setters and every one has not only exceeded my expectation in the field but they are the calmest most loving breed I have ever had. You will love your setter! Rick
 
#52 ·
#53 ·
Britney put some work in can teach to hunt close great companion soft mouth actually retrieve we'll if taught but like all good dogs need training and good owner if u want a possible good dog with little training springer spaniel but are flushers and a plus companion lab hard to argue there but if pointer is necessary Britney all the way most pointers just point but with some work Britney's can retrieve close to the best
 
#54 ·
Since we're talking upland dogs here-I'm going to threadjack and brag a bit on my PL that I recommended in an earlier post-here's a picture of my PL after a whoa training session over at the Double Barrel Ranch last weekend-getting her ready for an upcoming hunt test (and for the upland season)-held this point for over a minute before I flushed the pigeon out of the launcher for her. Got her fairly steady to wing and shot in this training session as well. Not too bad for an 18 month old!
 

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#56 ·
She's out of Tiger Mountain Kennels-very happy with her-strong hunter and darn good family dog. She's running in the upcoming APLA hunt test this September to get her CPR-which is why we were working on steadying her point and working on steady to wing and shot (even though steady to wing and shot isn't a requirement for the CPR).
 
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