UV or is it??

Discussion in 'Fly Tying' started by Jack Devlin, Aug 9, 2012.

  1. Jack Devlin

    Jack Devlin Active Member

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    View attachment 17554 View attachment 17553 View attachment 17553 View attachment 17554 With the popularity of UV materials now, are you sure you are actually getting what you are paying for? Today I purchased some clearly marked UV flash. When I put it under black light nothig showed up. I've encountered this on some other materials purchased recently and from different suppliers. So, from now on, I take my UV flashlight with me to the fly shop. After all, we are paying extra for the UV. Why not make sure it is there. Something to think about. I now understand that we cannot see UV, only florescence (I think).
     

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  2. Jack Devlin

    Jack Devlin Active Member

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    DSC04396.jpg DSC04397.jpg

    This is what I thought UV should look like.
     
  3. Norm Frechette

    Norm Frechette Googlemeister

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    so how are they breeding uv into hackles?
     
  4. Jack Devlin

    Jack Devlin Active Member

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    I guess they just leave the chickens out in the sun all the time??:)
    I'm not sure how UV is added. I guess it is a chemical additive during the dyeing process eh?
    All I know is that some materials marked UV when put to the test under black light are not UV.
    Jack
     
  5. jwg

    jwg Active Member

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    I have always been a little puzzled by what the UV label meant.

    You have tested for whether the materials fluoresce under UV light, absorbing UV and giving off longer wavelength visible light that you can see.

    The other possible meaning of UV would be that fish can see UV light, which we cannot, and this helps them to identify food, and see through dim water. So this would be about UV light reflecting off an object and being seen by the fish.

    Your post prompted me to try to sort this out.

    This page from a materials supplier seems to indicate they mean reflectance of UV light:
    http://spiritriver.net/uv

    and this blog implies the same.
    http://oregonflyfishingblog.com/201...terials-catch-fish-qa-with-author-reed-curry/

    So I think the point of UV materials is they reflect the ambient UV light, and the fish can see this. There would be no way to tell if the claim were true in the store using our human eyes which cannot see if the UV light is reflected.

    Jay
     
  6. Jack Devlin

    Jack Devlin Active Member

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    If you read my initial post you will note that I say " So, from now on, I take my UV flashlight with me to the fly shop." The point was that just because a package says UV it may not be so. Sometimes, the UV label is the only thing which responds to a UV light source. In other words, let the buyer beware. If you have a UV light shine it around your tying bench and your materials. You might be surprised what "lights up" in response to the light.
    Jack
     
  7. constructeur

    constructeur Active Member

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  8. Jack Devlin

    Jack Devlin Active Member

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    That's the ticket. I have a feeling that maybe some materials aren't as receptive to the chemical as others are? Don't know what the commercial process is as used by the feather merchants. UV is good. Friends use it on their Kokanee gear (fishing deep) and it helps. Good for steelhead flies. I look for UV materials. Need all the help I can get.
    Jack
     
  9. Jack Devlin

    Jack Devlin Active Member

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    Jay, thanks for the link to Caddisflyshop uv discussion. I got an education.
    Jack
     
  10. Evan Salmon

    Evan Salmon Active Member

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    Rather than spend the extra money on what may or may not actually be UV materials, I purchased a full set of florescent markers from a craft store for just a few bucks. They work just like any markers, I can use them on materials when I'm tying or mark up flies I've purchased.
     
  11. Pattick

    Pattick Member

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    I don't think that shining a UV light on materials in the store is a great way to disprove the UV label. If you shine the light on a material (like the slinky fibers) and don't notice a real difference it's probably just because the material still isn't reflecting enough UV light for the human eye to pick up. That being said, some materials definitely reflect more than others (like those hackles). It makes me wonder about what the fish sees.

    Maybe certain materials reflect so much UV that it spooks the fish? I mean, ghosts are 10 times scarier when they glow in the dark right?
     
  12. jwg

    jwg Active Member

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    I gotta agree that shining a UV light on the materials will not tell you if they are reflecting UV light right back, since we can't see UV light ourselves. The UV label is claiming it will reflect UV light (not whether it will fluoresce).

    The UV light test will tell you if the material is fluorescent, which is to say, it aborbs the UV light, and then re-emits visible light that we can see.

    Two separate optical phenomena.

    Its possible for a material to have both. imagine a material dyed with a fluorescent dye, and then treated with a UV reflecting pigment (like titanium dioxide) as well.

    Here is another link I just found:
    http://www.halibut.net/What-Fish-See.htm

    Jay
     
  13. Pattick

    Pattick Member

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    Lol, must have been late when I wrote that... I'd say that jwg has it nailed down.
     
  14. Jack Devlin

    Jack Devlin Active Member

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    Thanks Norm, Jay, Constructeur, Evan, and Pattick. This has been an interesting s learning experience. So, all my little flashlight is going to tell me is whether or not the material is florescant. I'll just have to take the manufacturer's word as to it being UV.
    Replenished bucktail stock today at local shop and wow, lots of florescence in a yellow and a pink tail I bought. A reminder of the 60's and 70's psychedelic posters under black light and a little doobie.:cool:
     
  15. constructeur

    constructeur Active Member

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    I think that's a reasonable assumption. Just like when dying something, I'd recon a natural feather or hair is going to be more receptive to accepting a liquid than a fine synthetic 'hair' like you show in your first post.

    That Oregon blog is awesome. Another good un' from a fella often featured on the Oregon FF Blog is : http://fishingwithjay.wordpress.com/