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Walther P22....?

5K views 36 replies 21 participants last post by  Alex MacDonald 
#1 ·
This isn't really a "hunting" related thread, so I hope it isn't too far off base in Cast & Blast. If it is, my apologies and one of the mods should delete and just drop me a line.

I'm not a huge gun guy. Don't have anything against guns, but hunting or target shooting hasn't ever been part of my family's regular activities growing up. However, like all smart parents, my mom and dad made sure I knew how to be safe around guns. I took the NRA hunter safety course and we went out and shot my dad's (now mine) pump 22 and 20 gauge enough that I knew enough to be safe. Now that I'm on my way to being "dad" myself, it's something that I fully intend to do with my kids as well. As we all know, there is nothing more dangerous than ignorance (or stupidity).

However, one thing my parents didn't do was to teach me much about handguns. The family didn't own any handguns and I was an adult before I learned to shoot one. Even today, I don't do much with handguns. So I take advantage of opportunities to go out with friends who know guns and learn from them. Today a buddy was in town "on leave" from his job in private security in Isreal. So he and I and a couple of friends went out to run a few rounds through the pistols. My buddy brought a little .22 pistol as well as his .45 H&K. And while shooting with the larger gun is what I wanted to work on, I have to say that everyone there today had a hoot with the .22. It was surprisingly accurate and just real fun to shoot.

It was a Walther P22. As I read up on it a bit, I see that many people love it and many call it a cheap junk that is just sold because of the name and is part of the downfall of quality firearms. I don't know about any of that, I just know it was fun to shoot. The most common complaint seemed to be that it was picky about ammo for some people. And I admit that we saw that as well using some older rounds. But all the fresh CCI rounds we shot were no problem. Anyway, I'm thinking it would be fun to have one of these. Would be a great way to get my wife used to feeling safe around handguns (and thus get her dad out shooting a bit again). Then a few years down the road, would be a nice way to teach my kids the same. Won't be for concealed carry, won't be for home/personal protection, just for target and teaching.

Has anyone else used a P22? Opinions? Where would I find one used? Is buying one used a bad idea (I've never actually bought a gun myself). If everyone here tells me that it's junk, what's something that is similar but better quality?
 
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#3 ·
Its been around for a while, and good as far as I know. I too was not a gun guy until a few months ago, I picked up my first, a Glock 17, and then found it to be too much fun. Even though 9mm is cheaper to shoot than .40, I thought being a beginner, it would be nice to shoot cheaper ammo, and picked up a Sig Mosquito, which like the P22, shoots .22LR. If you're thinking of the P22, you should also consider the SIG. I love mine and have put over 2000 rounds through it. It, like the P22 is fussy when it comes to ammo. But if you use the manufacturer recommended CCI mini mag, it will be fine. Do not try to save a few bucks and buy the Walmart Winchester or other cheap .22, its dirty and will jam. Its like putting regular gas in a sports car that requires high octane. It will run, but it won't run as good as its supposed to.

As with any gun, keep it clean, and oiled. I field strip mine comepletely after each range time. I've heard that the P22 is a little tougher to field strip, the SIG is super easy. Now I know why the so many folks love their SIGs. You'll read online about the Mosquito haters, but those were the early generation arms, and the newer ones have little problems with fail to feed, fail to eject. My recommendation would be is to go to your local range and try both out side by side. If you think you're going to be into more accurate target shooting, look into the Ruger mark 3, that is supposed to be a nice .22 with alot of accuracy. Don't get me wrong, the little SIG does a fine job at 10 and even 20 yards, as Im sure the Walther is very similar. Be warned, that once you enter into the realm, you'll soon find yourself browsing around gun shops just as you do with fly shops.
 
#4 ·
Another good 22 to look for is any of the Ruger Mark II or Mark III's. Fun to shoot, not so picky on ammo. Course I am a Ruger fan finding them 1/2 the price of other simalar guns and not picky like many others on ammo. The Ruger Mark guns are one of the most produced 22's ever made so pretty easy to find used. You might check out used guns on SeattleGun.net
 
#5 ·
I prefer the Rugers or Brownings. Know two guys who have/had Walthers . . . one loves his, the other couldn't sell the his fast enough. Appears as if some of them can be picky about ammo according to reports I've read on shooting forums, but I haven't used one myself.
 
#6 ·
I've read good things about the Rugers as well. But to be honest, I find them too Luger looking. And while everyone says they are accurate and sturdy, they don't seem to have the "fun factor" that the P22 had (and that others talk about as well). But to be fair I haven't shot one.

But if I were going to get a funny looking .22, I think I would get one of those space age Beretta Neos.
 
#8 ·
Ditch all of this advise and buy what you shoot best. To determine that:

1. Go to a range where you can rent guns.

2. If you are going to try five guns, buy 10 targets.

3. Label one SIG SF, one SIG RF, one Walther SF, one Walter RF, etc...

4. Put the SF target up, and fire five slow, controlled rounds with the corresponding gun.

5. Put the RF target up, and fire five fast consecutive rounds with the corresponding gun.

6. Do that with all guns. The gun that groups the best for you - not the necessarily the one closest to the target's center - is the one that you buy.

I really like the features of the Springfield XD line, but I cannot accurately index shoot them without a lot of modifications. I can hit really well with a SIG 226 & 229, so that is what I carry.
 
#9 ·
Ditch all of this advise and buy what you shoot best. To determine that:

1. Go to a range where you can rent guns.

2. If you are going to try five guns, buy 10 targets.

3. Label one SIG SF, one SIG RF, one Walther SF, one Walter RF, etc...

4. Put the SF target up, and fire five slow, controlled rounds with the corresponding gun.

5. Put the RF target up, and fire five fast consecutive rounds with the corresponding gun.

6. Do that with all guns. The gun that groups the best for you - not the necessarily the one closest to the target's center - is the one that you buy.

I really like the features of the Springfield XD line, but I cannot accurately index shoot them without a lot of modifications. I can hit really well with a SIG 226 & 229, so that is what I carry.
While there isn't anything wrong with going to a range and testing out some guns, and it's something I should probably do (given that I haven't shot a ton of different handguns), I think it's important to remember that the "process" is as important as the "results" for me in this situation. A .22 handgun, to me, is a fun plinker and a teaching gun for wife/kid (good for me as well since it would get me out to the range more). I don't need it to be the most accurate, or the toughest, or the best to conceal carry. I just want it to be reasonably accurate and fun to shoot. The P22 seemed to be those two things upon my first interaction with it yesterday. What concerned me about it were some of the reliability reports that I had read.

But still, going to a range and trying out other .22s is not a bad idea. Plantation up here in bellingham is a pretty nice place. Though I've never checked out if they have rental guns. Should be easy enough to find out however.
 
#10 ·
I should mention that when I refer to a gun like this as a "teaching" or "learning" gun, I'm not talking about learning to shoot well. I'm more talking about learning to handle a gun safely, be comfortable with a gun in the hand, get used to being in a range environment, and so on.

I can see how there would be some confusion if "shooting well" or "being very accurate" was what I thought was important and I was asking about a gun like the P22.
 
#11 ·
I have one and it is a cheap pistol and fun to shoot. Probably not a bad pistol for the money. I guess you get what you pay for. Personally think the Browning Buckmark, Colt Woodman, High Standard or Ruger much better firearm.

As you mentioned my P22 likes CCI ammo too.

Have been a Firearmms Instructor 15 tears and here is my advice: If you are looking to buy a safe and reliable handgun and it is your first handgun I strongly suggest starting out with a revolver. ( I personally have seen a few cops that started out with a semi-auto and have had AD'S ( accidental discharges) on the range, at work, because they lacked basic firearms handling skills)

Revolver is much safer. Easier to use, load and clean. Especially in a range environment with other shooters. Once you are familiar with safe handling practices move up to a semi-auto if you have safe and responsible firearms handling skills. Taurus, S&W, Ruger make inexpensive 22 revolvers.

Same advice for a long gun. Start off with a single shot shotgun/rifle for the first few years before picking up a firearm with a magazine. First 2 years hunting with my father I carried an empty rifle/shotgun so he could observe me and see I was safe and responsible

Kudos to you for thinking of safety before purchasing your first handgun. Most guys just go out and buy a Glock, Sig, Springfield with no experience with the safe handling of firearms..
 
#16 ·
I have one and it is a cheap pistol and fun to shoot. Probably not a bad pistol for the money. I guess you get what you pay for. Personally think the Browning Buckmark, Colt Woodman, High Standard or Ruger much better firearm.

As you mentioned my P22 likes CCI ammo too.

Have been a Firearmms Instructor 15 tears and here is my advice: If you are looking to buy a safe and reliable handgun and it is your first handgun I strongly suggest starting out with a revolver. ( I personally have seen a few cops that started out with a semi-auto and have had AD'S ( accidental discharges) on the range, at work, because they lacked basic firearms handling skills)

Revolver is much safer. Easier to use, load and clean. Especially in a range environment with other shooters. Once you are familiar with safe handling practices move up to a semi-auto if you have safe and responsible firearms handling skills. Taurus, S&W, Ruger make inexpensive 22 revolvers.

Same advice for a long gun. Start off with a single shot shotgun/rifle for the first few years before picking up a firearm with a magazine. First 2 years hunting with my father I carried an empty rifle/shotgun so he could observe me and see I was safe and responsible

Kudos to you for thinking of safety before purchasing your first handgun. Most guys just go out and buy a Glock, Sig, Springfield with no experience with the safe handling of firearms..
iagree
Exactly what he said....ribka that is!!!!

Jc
 
#12 ·
I have a sig sauer mosquito .22lr Its a great little gun and just like the walther, I only shoot cci minimag thru it and have never had a jam. Its a great accurate little gun thats easy. I took my mom out shooting it a year or so ago and she had a blast. Its a great starter gun for anyone getting into pistols.
 
#13 ·
I suppose if you're after a pistol that looks like a combat pistol the P22 is OK.

If you're after a pistol that can shoot well, has adjustable sights, and is less "bad" looking there are lots of alternatives.

One that is a great value is the Browning Buckmark Camper. It has a bright optical front sight, adjustable rear sight. It comes with 3 magazines. It has enough heft to hold point of aim well and the non-slip finger groove grip fits most hands well.

I've shot hundreds of rounds through mine with no problems what so ever. It eats any ammo I put in it with no FTF's or FTE. Easy to break down for cleaning. And, it costs hundreds less than my range buddy's Kimber 22, something that just chaps his ass. If you just have to bling your guns, Tactical Solutions can spend hundreds of your dollars making it look "cooler".
 
#14 ·
Roper,

While normally I respect your opinion, this time I think you took a path to get to it that is unfair.

While I'm not going to lie and say I don't like the looks of the P22 (a tiny combat pistol is pretty cute), I think I made it fairly clear that what impressed me most about the gun was that I found it very fun to shoot and see it as a gun my wife would be comfortable shooting. Your post comes off like I'm some thugged out 'G who just wants a gun because it looks cool and doesn't care about anything else. Aside from this post and the one where I say the Ruger MkII looks too much like a Luger, I don't mention "looks" once. I mention fun, feeling comfortable, reliability, and I even mention accuracy. But never "looks" regarding the P22.

You comments about the buckmark are useful, it's a gun I have heard good things about. But as for the rest of it, I think you are putting some sort of "stupid kids today just want to look like rappers" crap on me that isn't deserved. Kind of a downgrade from your normal advice.
 
#19 ·
Well I am a dead ringer for the bad guys in 1970's cop dramas, so that is true.

As for the fixed sights, as I mentioned previously, I'm not looking for this gun to be a great target gun. I'm just looking to have fun and to teach my wife (and perhaps sons someday) how to handle a pistol and be comfortable around it.

However, the pimp in me does have to agree with the previous "revolver" suggestions. Perhaps some sort of snub-nose wood-grip thing that would look at home mugging a sterotypical 1970's disco couple on "Starsky and Hutch".
 
#21 ·
Ruger makes thier Single Six revolver that comes with an interchangeable cylinder for 22 mags. It also has adjustable sights.

It may be one of the safest style handguns made. Single action revolvers require the hammer to be pulled pack to fire. It is pretty difficult to get an accidental discharge and when learning that is very important. Semi autos require discipline and good handling techniques. It is way too easy to accidentally touch off a round in semi autos. It only takes one accidental discharge to really ruin someones day and maybe life. A 22 is very lethal up close and personal.

Dave
 
#22 ·
Josh -

Unless you've had combat control training or other such tactical exposure - and even if you did - you might want to check out Insights Training (Google them). They have a one day, basic pistol course, and most of the people who take it are not typical gun people, but rather people who never thought they'd be in a pistol course. Your wife would find that a very supportive environment. The night before rent The Brave One with Jody Foster - just to set the mode. ;-))

It is always bad news to teach a spouse something like shooting, skiing, paddling, etc. Leave it to the professionals.
 
#23 ·
If you plan to buy to also have wife and or kids learn on one thing to really think about is the size of the handle. If you have large or even average size hands for a man what you find comfortable to hold might not work for your wife and or kids. A gun that does not fit right can really turn some one off to the sport.
My Mom was lucky when my Father got her into shooting that Dad after seeing many of his freinds try to get their wifes into the shooting arts and the wives quite after a few times trying saw that a big reason they did not stick with was they were given guns that did not fit them well. In fact many husbands gave their wives guns that were their own cast offs that they themsleves did not like to shot. My dad was smart and before she even shot a single round bought her a rifle fit for her small arms and did the same with the shooty and went with a 32 cal revolver rather then the more common 357 mag that most shot in their events. Mom now does well in all 3 stages in the event shoting and has the ribbons and trophies to prove it.
Never shot a P22 before so I have no idea of their handle size.
 
#25 ·
If you plan to buy to also have wife and or kids learn on one thing to really think about is the size of the handle. If you have large or even average size hands for a man what you find comfortable to hold might not work for your wife and or kids. A gun that does not fit right can really turn some one off to the sport....Never shot a P22 before so I have no idea of their handle size.
That's one advantage of the P22, it's really a compact gun. I can't imagine a small woman (or even a large kid) being unhappy holding it. In fact, I would imagine that people with large hands would dislike it a bit. However, I'm not a 'meatpaw' type fellow. So no worries for me.
 
#27 ·
FWIW, after trying a Buckmark out at the range, I couldn't deny just how nice of a gun it is. So it jumped to the top of the list and I picked one up the other week. I'm sure I'll end up with a P22 at some point, just because of how fun it is. But the Buckmark is just flat out a nice gun. Roper was correct.

Although it is worth noting that the Buckmark Camper no longer comes with three magazines. They only give you one now.
 
#28 ·
Wow, interesting thread. I've never split hairs on .22 pistols before, I've shot most of these, and though variable in terms of intrinsic safety, they're all pretty nice can shooters.

Though Josh, if the Ruger looks too much like a Luger to you, you should see my Stoeger .22 Luger. It looks and shoots a lot like a Luger. And it doesn't look much like the Ruger. It's much more blocky.

Cheers.
 
#32 ·
Josh, lots of good opinions here.
Find a 22 pistol that feels good in your hand, it should also feel good to the wife.
Being comfortable with a hand gun is just as important.
I own a Ruger Mark II, also a Bear cat. I can't hit the inside of a phone booth standing inside with the Bear cat. But I can take the eye out of a grouse with the Mark II.
All about comfort.
 
#33 ·
OK my 2% or a dollar. I also am a long time shooter and ex instructor. I have to agree with going with a revolver. Ruger and Taurus both make excellent not too expensive revolvers. to me revolvers are easier to use.
perfect for plinking or if need be taking out a rabbit for dinner. Having read some recent reviews of the Taurus 94 I would stay away from the 94 and buy the Ruger. apperiantly the taurus is hit or miss on quality.

Eric
 
#34 ·
I bought a P22 for my wife to get her into guns and have her learn a little about semi pistols in a combat style before I spent the money on a pistol she could use for protection. I know she will either buy a small framed revolver or a sub compact auto when that time comes. When we picked it up we had holo sights front and rear added and after her second time at the range, she was allowed to shot a guys with a small laser and she went out to buy one the next day. We only shoot minimags or velocitors from cci and never worry about jams. If I had to do it again I would go the same route, she loved the semi auto due to being a girl and loving the feel of the power, she also like to learn how to break them down. Since then she has shoot glocks, xd, sw revolvers and is always excited and very careful with the handling of guns. The P22 turned my wife into a gun girl!
 
#35 ·
Why I don't tend to weigh in on many opinions with regards to fly fishing (still a newbie) I do indeed know quite a bit about this topic. First and foremost I own and have shot thousands of rounds through my P22, it's a great little gun. I just use cheap federal walmart ammo and clean my walther after each session. I have never had issues, the only FTF's I have had, were caused by the 22 ammo it's self. As you might or might not know 22 (rimfire) is just not as reliable as most centerfire rounds.

As far as some of the other recommendations, if I were to just buy a pure shooting .22 it would be a browning buckmark or a Ruger M2 or M3. Both are great and pretty accurate. As far as the Sig Mosquito, they have a ton of jamming issues if you do not use high velocity ammo like CCI. I love Sig's and have owned both pistols, get the P22.

Now you may ask why not go with the other options or recommendations as I have posted above. Well there are two primary reasons. The first one being that a P22 is more fun to shoot that buckmarks and the Rugers. I like shooting combat style pistols! The second reason is that a P22 or Sig is more like a real pistol in which I would defend my life or families life with. I use a P22 as a training tool as well as fun. The controls of a buckmark are nowhere near modern day combat pistol designs. For example, if you shoot a P22 then you can pick up an HK with ease.
 
#36 ·
Despite the fact that I was the one who started this thread wanting a P22, I'm going to chime in here and reply to FlyNewbie.

Now you may ask why not go with the other options or recommendations as I have posted above. Well there are two primary reasons. The first one being that a P22 is more fun to shoot that buckmarks and the Rugers. I like shooting combat style pistols!
I'm not going to argue that the P22 isn't fun, I think it is very much so. But the Buckmark is equally as fun (though in a different way) and I would expect that the Rugers are as well given how many fans they have. Don't get me wrong, the P22 is fun. But claiming that it's MORE fun than the others is such a subjective opinion-based statement as to be useless for someone trying to decide which gun to buy.

The second reason is that a P22 or Sig is more like a real pistol in which I would defend my life or families life with. I use a P22 as a training tool as well as fun. The controls of a buckmark are nowhere near modern day combat pistol designs. For example, if you shoot a P22 then you can pick up an HK with ease.
The Buckmark's controls and grip angle are the same as the 1911's, a gun that has more fans around the world than just about any other. In fact, one could argue that the Buckmark replicates the 1911's controls better than the P22 replicates the HK's (mostly due to the HK's frequent inclusion of a decocker and lower placement of the decocker/safety). But that is likely bordering on another "opinion" type statement that isn't very useful. Suffice to say that the P22 isn't the only .22 that replicates the controls of a larger caliber "cousin".

And to be honest, neither gun perfectly replicates the controls of a Glock, probably the most common/popular self defense handgun out there today. This is mostly due to the fact that nobody makes a safety-free striker fired .22, but still, you get the idea. If someone really wants to have a .22 that replicates a defense gun, they should probably look into a 1911 frame gun with a Kimber .22 conversion for practice. Or at one of the Sig Saur P220/P226/P229 guns with the Sig .22 conversion. Then the controls will be EXACTLY the same between .22 practice and self defense use. Of course the recoil will be significantly different, but there's no way around that.
 
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