Discussion in 'Watercraft' started by Wally Bear, Apr 25, 2011.
You gotta be able to pack a few supplies!
Kent, Scadden shows all of the info a person needs to compare his rafts: http://www.northforkoutdoors.com/2011catalog/specs.html This link shows every raft in an easy to read format, but it's all here. I think WB would be fine buying a frameless Renegade[800lbs] capacity or frameless Rampage[1,300 lbs.]capacity...WB: IMHO this would be the smallest of the Scadden frameless rafts for you to buy! I only have 8 years experience runing rivers: OP, SKY,Skagit and Yakima. I have an Abel[Waterstrider] and a couple friends have Kodiaks....all frameless rafts. Yes, they are not as responsive as a framed raft, but in the time frame given and with these frameless rafts, nobody has come even close to getting into a potentially dangerous situation. You need to pay attention, but for us, it has always been an easy going experience. You have plenty of time to react to every situation, as long as a reasonable amount of common sense and attention is adhered to. A couple of good strong strokes at a 45 degree angle away from "danger" and your long past it! Now some guys are going to jump all over this [and me] and I don't really care. I am not reckless, but common sense goes a lot farther than DVD's or classes or whatever! 90% or more of the time these rafts will just go into the best section of water all on there own...let's leave the OP out on this one, but it's true for the Sky and the Yakima. If you guys doubt this the next time your on the Yak, look ahead for the dark 'V' section of water coming up...and don't do a thing... your Watermaster will take you right through it! Now if there is a big boulder in your way, you might have to make a couple pulls[45 degrees away from trouble] on your oars and your fine. WB, that frameless Rampage will handle [quite easily] juast about anything you will ever need it to do. The one assumption I do make here is that anyone purchasing one of these rafts has an adequate degree of common sense, It's not rocket science but it is a hell of alot of fun, especially doing donuts down fast, shallow shutes [once your ready for it]!! I'll let someone else add 'PFD" 20-30 times on his post!
Outlaw Escape 6' 52 " 14" 24 lbs. 500 lbs. Frameless Frameless Bladderless Alcoa 6061 T65 Rack & Pinion F16 Optional Class III Lifetime 999.99
Outlaw Renegade 9' 56" 15" 28 lbs. 800 lbs. Frameless Frameless Bladderless Alcoa 6061 T65 Rack & Pinion F16 Optional Class V Lifetime 1600.00
Outlaw Assault 8'6" 48" 13" 23 lbs. 800 lbs. Frameless Frameless Bladderless Alcoa 6061 T65 Rack & Pinion EVA Optional Class V Lifetime 2000.00
Outlaw Rampage 10'6" 60" 15" 38 lbs. 1300 lbs. Frameless Frameless Bladderless Alcoa 6061 T65 Rack & Pinion F16 Optional Class V Lifetime 2100.00
Outlaw Challenger 12' 68" 18" 45 lbs. 1800 lbs. Frameless Frameless Bladderless Alcoa 6061 T65 Rack & Pinion F16 Optional Class V Lifetime 2500.00
Outlaw Excalibur 12' 68" 18" 48 lbs. 1800 lbs. Frameless Frameless Bladderless Alcoa 6061 T65 Rack & Pinion EVA Optional Class V Lifetime 3000.00
1 PERSON FRAME
Outlaw X5 10'6" 60" 15" 65 lbs. 1000 lbs. Lazer-Lok Alcoa 6061 T65 Bladderless Alcoa 6061 T65 Cobra-Lite Padded Thru the Frame Class V Lifetime 2500.00
Outlaw Avenger 12' 68" 18" 72 lbs. 1200 lbs. Lazer-Lok Alcoa 6061 T65 Bladderless Alcoa 6061 T65 Cobra-Lite Padded Thru the Frame Class V Lifetime 2800.00
Outlaw Challenger 12' 68" 18" 79 Lbs. 1800 lbs. Lazer-Lok Alcoa 6061 T65 Bladderless Alcoa 6061 T65 Cobra-Lite Padded Thru the Frame Class V Lifetime 3200.00
Skykomish Sunrise 10'6" 60" 16" 65 lbs. 600 lbs. X5 Aqua-Lok Alcoa 6061 T65 Urethane Alcoa 6061 T65 Bronze Padded Thru the Frame Class IV 15 Year 1800.00
Blue, gotta love the way you pack for a trip...Damn nice raft!!!
I couldn't resist. This was the pre to the now Renegade. This was the Navigator II and 9' long also. Cool boat! Zipper in that back half for a motor.
Mumbles, the weird thing about rowing my Renegade (I'm putting your Assault in the same category) is I thought when rowing the sucker, I wasn't going anywhere. I was fishing Strawberry and rowing like a madman and it felt like I was barely moving. I then looked over at the shore line and saw it passing quite fast. I came to the conclusion that being frameless and lightweight, it was effortless when rowing which made it seem like I wasn't getting anywhere. I have the composite oars on my X5 and I can feel those guys digging in when rowing. But then again I usually have a 55 lb. motor on and my back deck loaded down.
Mumbles, I was wondering why you gave up the panther? I had a pontoon boat about 10 years ago. I sat about 12" above the water & found that by the end of a day of finning I had really sore knees. I couldn't go very fast with the fins, due to the drag. I found the footpegs to be a hassle with my flyline. However, I loved being able to really move across a lake with the oars and I liked not getting cold feet during the early spring or late fall. I was thinking about getting another one (I've been using a fat cat tube ever since getting rid of the toon). Did the Panther keep you knees closer to the water? Does it row quick? I don't really care about the length; I was thinking a harder rocker or shorter toon would have less drag anyways. Maybe a Bucks Bag Alpine? Do you know why Outcast quit making the Panther and Cougar?
I saw the NFO Outlaw Renagade the other day at Cabelas. It looked like a cross between my Fat Cat and a toon. Do you have any experience with this? Would it keep my knees close to the water, go faster than finning with the Fat Cat, and have less drag? Any ideas?
Looks are deceiving. They are
not really a V shape like the SFC, the FC the ODC, but more a U shape. They are almost 5' wide, so in other words, they are about as WIDE as those other "tube" are long.
You sit OUT of the water on a Renegade. Which means you can wear Hip waders. The knee pain, I am afraid, could be just a medical thing and will happen with any boat.
As far as less drag on a smaller boat, I think more of a Diameter of the toon, no the length. Length might effect turning, but not tracking.
Foot Print on the water. I can only compare to waterskiing. I can get up very easy and quickly with little arm strength on two or one ski, but a wake board (shorter and wider..bigger foot print all together) takes allot more strength.
With the seat touching the water on a donut or a V tube, you are creating more drag. The Renegade IS like two water skis. Two individual toons. The U part is out of the water as is the floor and seat, like most pontoons.
My question to Mumbles is I have a few friends that had the Panther as well, and they said they were sitting in the water, is this true?
Rodwolfy, I "gave up" on the Panther because the Mrs is not super into my fly fishing and watercraft collection hobbies. I had the Fishcat Panther and did not dislike it at all. I had a chance to get into a Watermaster, and jumped on it because I coveted that craft. Realistically, I had to choose one over the other and I chose the frameless route. I think if I could only have one craft I could be perfectly happy with the Panther, Kodiak, or my current boat the Assault. I do prefer the Assault's rockered design over the flat Kodiak design, but that is just my personal taste I guess.
Blue, I do not feel that at 225# and a day's float worth of excessive gear that I sat "in" the water. Sure those tubes are smaller in diameter and you sit lower. Lower means a few not so bad things. Less wind sail catching side tube when it blows. Less distance from the back of my thigh to the water so fin kicking is done deeper, which translates to less fin tip disturbing of the surace of the water, which is quiet. Four smaller diameter tubes, two sets per side, also makes for an easily modified flat working survace on each side, wide stable stance and an overall nice craft.
The three boats I speak of, Fishcat Panther, Watermaster Kodiak and Scadden Assault all are fine crafts that I've enjoyed. Who knows what I'll HAVE TO HAVE next.
I think that I'd be asking to go for a few trips with the others in order to try out several different types of craft, & maybe if you ask them really, really nice, that maybe Mumble's, or even possibly Mr. Scoones could help you out in a ride along @ their next jamboree, or even on a day trip, if it was possible. I'm sure that you would not only get one hell of an education, but just might make some excellent friends as well.
This would offer you some great insight on what you are looking for, price range, knowledge & safety tips from guys that do this for the best of reasons, ... the sport of being out there!
How about it guys?
Can/would you help WallyBear out?