WDFW Announces Puget Sound river closures for 2012

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Wild Steelhead Coalition, Jan 6, 2012.

  1. Brian Miller

    Brian Miller Be vewy vewy qwiet, I'm hunting Cutthwoat Twout

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    I got the email notice yesterday. It was inevitable
     
  2. Phil Fravel

    Phil Fravel Friendly

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    I believe they call it the cowlets??? Even though I cant seem to catch a fish there
     
  3. Nailknot

    Nailknot Active Member

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    I'm not sure why this is so hard for people to understand. Hatcheries don't work. Every one of the listed closed rivers has a hatchery on it. There is absolutely zero correlation between hatcheries and open rivers to fish. But, there is a direct correlation, scientifically proven, between hatcheries and closed rivers.

    Hatcheries = closed rivers. It's right there in front of us. How could any sane person argue otherwise?
     
  4. Jonathan Tachell

    Jonathan Tachell Active Member

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    Over fishing and habitat degradation for the past 80 years have and continue to cause the demise of our native steelhead and salmon. Without hatcheries there would be no fishing at this point or in the future. Close down all of the hatcheries and that will be the end of steelhead fishing in most if not all washington rivers and streams.

    Unless watersheds can be returned to the way they were decades ago, all users groups agree to stop fishing for steelhead including recreational, commercial and native american fisherman and the human population decreases rapidly, wild steelhead will never return in any numbers remotely close to historic levels or even levels high enough to sustain a viable fishery for all user groups. Which is why we have hatcheries to subsidize the fisheries that we f***ed up.

    Trust me I would love to see our rivers full of big strong native steelhead but there are to many obsticales to overcome and some that can not be undone. I hope I am wrong but I am a realist and I don't see it happening.
     
  5. Nailknot

    Nailknot Active Member

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    You are watching the end of fishing now and in the future. These rivers, which all have hatcheries, are closed. What about this reality is so difficult to understand?
     
  6. freestoneangler

    freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

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    This same headline was posted in the 70's, 80's, 90's...

    [QUOTE/] These rivers, which all have hatcheries, are closed. What about this reality is so difficult to understand?[/QUOTE]

    Just stop clipping the hatchery fish and everything will be restored to normal :rolleyes:

    Look, I too would love to believe we could click our wading boots and make everything right that has been thrashed by a cadre of reasons I (and others) have already mentioned. This may sound really selfish, but I like to fish; for trout, steelhead, and salmon. And, to be frank, it soon becomes a boring activity w/o some reasonable level of fish population. If we end hatcheries, we will for all practical argument end the reasonable opportunity to catch the quarry we seek; at least in our lifetimes. It's naive to think we can return things to the way "they were" by simply closing hatcheries.

    God willing, I have maybe 20-25 seasons left where I'll either be here in physical form to fish or in physical shape to do so. I'm not up for standing in fish less rivers during that time. I'll buy into the hatchery closure when I see closure of tribal and commercial fishing for these stocks being done concurrently -- which, sorry to say, isn't likely to happen.
     
  7. Matt Burke

    Matt Burke Active Member

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    We have to. It's the end of the world as we know it. Not unexpected though and that is why I didn't take time off this month. February is always a good time to fish the shit out of Trigg's rivers. I'll text you my days off this month. Let me know.
     
  8. Jonathan Tachell

    Jonathan Tachell Active Member

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    I agree with freestoneangler it gets really old going out fishing and not even having a decent chance at catching a fish, because there are none! I am in favor of bringing back the high hatchery production of years past in rivers that have very little or no wild return so at least people can go out and enjoy the sport of fishing and actually be succesful from time to time. My #1 passion is fishing for king salmon in the Tacoma area, I grew up doing that with my father. I used to fish 3 to 5 times a week in the summer and 2 times a week in the winter. I think last year I put in maybe 15 days for kings. Just for the simple reason that I was wasting my time and money fishing for fish that are not there. It makes me terribly sad to see the shape that our fisheries are in but unfortunately hatcheries are the only way to keep the sport alive, especially in the Puget Sound area and trust me it dies more and more every year. I know a lot of guys who have sold there boats and gear and given it up and to be honest with you I am not far from it myself.
     
  9. FT

    FT Active Member

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    ak powder monkey,

    How does having catch & release imply there is a harvestable surplus in the river?

    Also, since it is well-known the anadromous fish populations in the PNW fluctuate from years of relatively high abundance to years of relatively low abundance, correslated somewhat with El Nino and La Nina, why must we always assume that the low abundance years mean the fish are in trouble of extinction so all fishing, including catch & release should be curtailed, and in high abundance years assume there are more than enough fish to be caught with many getting bonked with no detriment to the run?
     
  10. o mykiss

    o mykiss Active Member

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    Stocking the hell out of a bunch of these rivers with hatchery fish is never going to happen as long as the Endangered Species Act is around in its current form. So all you zombie lovers better get used to it. Go ahead and sell your boats and gear. (sheesh, whatever shred of hope I have of the fly angling community being half way enlightened is further frayed by threads like this.)
     
  11. ak_powder_monkey

    ak_powder_monkey Proud to Be Alaskan

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    most studies put C&R fishing for steelhead at a 5% mortality rate... So when regulating fisheries its assumed that 5% of the fish caught are going to die, that is your harvestable surplus.
     
  12. Chris DeLeone

    Chris DeLeone Active Member

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    I'm not sure why this is so hard for people to understand. Hatcheries don't work. Every one of the listed closed rivers has a hatchery on it. There is absolutely zero correlation between hatcheries and open rivers to fish. But, there is a direct correlation, scientifically proven, between hatcheries and closed rivers.

    Hatcheries = closed rivers. It's right there in front of us. How could any sane person argue otherwise?

    You are watching the end of fishing now and in the future. These rivers, which all have hatcheries, are closed. What about this reality is so difficult to understand?

    So Nail - Please tell me how people are fishing the Sandy this season? Hatchery run and a depressed
    native run that is well under some of the PS systems, ESA listed and still anglers are able to CnR and fish through, what Juns/July??

    I would say that the hatchery on he Sandy is a direct correlation of having a hatchery and an open river - while I don't support hatcheries on all rivers this example is important. Since u live there - its more of a question?
    Thanks Chirs
     
  13. Checkthisout

    Checkthisout Member

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    Systems with Hatcheries also tend to have a lot of development or some type of impoundment that the hatchery was installed to mitigate in the first place.

    OP rivers also have hatcheries yet no closures.

    I think what you are finally seeing is what logging, rip-wrapping and overfishing have done to the species.

    It just takes this long before you really start to see the negative impacts of those activities. Each little hit over the years takes away a little bit more.

    Elwell is a good example. That stream used to be fairly pristine but one blowout over 12 years ago completely killed that stream. All the holding water filled in which sped up streamflow which means less little creatures, less small gravels (that aren't constantly shifting).

    An example of a piece of water relatively unimpacted by logging (simply because it has a large swamp to help average flows) is Griffin Creek.
     
  14. Checkthisout

    Checkthisout Member

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    Try Sea-Run cut throat fishing. These tend to spawn before the floods come through and destroy their nests. They also tend to spawn in protected sidewaters. They also are not subject to ocean conditions that seem to so greatly effect fishing for other species.

    Native steelies may make a minor comeback as Ocean conditions improve in favor of anadramous fish but not to fishable levels.
     
  15. Chris Bellows

    Chris Bellows Your Preferred WFF Poster

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