Discussion in 'Steelhead' started by Andrew Lawrence, Apr 1, 2014.
Projection is a bitch.
I feel strongly that fishing is an appropriate use of steelhead (and other species) overall productivity. Society has clearly established priorities for other uses; water, power, logging, agriculture, development, etc. . If we as anglers do not stand up for that use fishing will disappear as society uses whatever available productivity may remain for those other uses. I'm in the effort to restore angling opportunities on the Skagit not for myself (have not targeted wild Skagit steelhead in more than 15 years) but that my grandkids might be able to enjoy some of what I have. History has clearly demonstrated that your approach all but guarantees that they will not.
Regarding the recent trend (post 1990) of wild Skagit steelhead. I believe if one includes the 8,700 wild spawners in 2013 that trend is either flat or increasing. The historic low escapement (in 35 year data base) in 2009 drives the perception of a declining trend. I do find it interesting that low escapement followed the decision to decrease the number of hatchery smolts released in the basin. The first year of lower numbers was 2007 and two years later we have historic lows. Any one think that there is a correlation between reducing hatchery releases and the poor wild returns?
I'm all in for a Skagit River basin steelhead plan.
Not that the fish much care when their living room got trashed or when we started collecting data. So then you are saying the trend line, which you argue as flat, is being influenced by carrying capacity estimates?
No argument that fishing is not a significant factor in loss of habitat and carrying capacity. 30 years may seem like half a lifetime to you, but is many places to the right side of the decimal point when we're talking about the history of steelhead. Arguably more important than the past is what we do not know about what's to come. But, by the sound of it, you and some others know all you need to know... I'll bet your predecessors did as well (which was Halverson's point).
You can basically tell when a conversation on the internet has run its course and no longer serves any purpose for anybody when it turns into name calling and personal attacks. It seems in this case both sides have reached that point and this thing needs to be shelved.
Gee, thanks Dad. And it's quite clear who was doing all the name calling and personal attacks from behind his computer screen. Agree that the thread has seen its day.
That was me FSA with the last personal attack, not him. No need to call him "dad" when you know damn well he's ignored you. If you wanna call out a name caller it's me in this case. Man up and call me out. Still in the book.
Freestone Angler: number two for the 2014 ignore list. Unfortunately, I'll still have to wade through your BS when others quote you.
Lex, you're in luck that the ignore feature also removes any quotes by the people you choose to ignore. A great feature to tune out some of the noise that at times makes the internet almost unbearable.
Also not the sharpest knife in the drawer I see... I was referring to you, and he and everyone else knows that . I already responded to your childish rant... told you to send a PM if you wanted to continue your tantrum. You could always join the rest of the choir and exercise your ignore button... so you can be in perfect harmony.
I call bullshit.
Yours was a direct response to someone else. You are a liar and a coward.
And you are punk out cashing checks your face can't cash. KerryS and I haven't agreed on much about a lot of things, but his point about reducing threads to name calling was spot on...and directed at you. Your inability to carry on debate w/o acting like an immature kid who isn't getting his way is revealing. Never had the need to use the ignore feature, but you are certainly making a good case for it.
You are the single most ignored person on this site as far as anyone can tell. You make all sorts of passive agressive remarks about people and their quoir etc. when you are ignored you call them names (like dad). They can't defend themselves.
I have decided to just call you out on the BS rather than take the passive aproach and ignore you. I freely admit that it's childish and inappropriate to call you names. But at this point what is the other option? I suppose I could just let you go around acting like you do, but that would be a bit like seeing someone with toilet paper hanging out their pants and not telling them.
What I find truly amazing is that in the face of people ignoring you left and right you continue to act the same and then claim they are the ones who can't handle a discussion. It's like the man who has been divorced 3 times and blames the women each time. At some point it's important to as the question "Is it me?".
I often ask "is it me?" In this case, the direct name calling is me.
Wow boys, settle down now. Mature adults are allowed to disagree on things, its okay, sometimes there is no single 'right' answer. To start getting vicious when the other does not agree......that's weak, goes against the spirit of a good debate. It was an interesting thread throughout, with both sides having good arguments (although it surprises me that FSA and Rob Allen don't have more backers) ...then it got sad.
What happens when some cannot stand those that disagree with them and simply turn to childish name calling (well outside the bounds of oft hand jabs). It's been clear to me since I joined WFF that I am not among the majority on this thread when it comes to the to the "wild fish or nothing" crusade...I'm fine with that. Life w/o hatcheries would be ideal, but I don't feel it is reality and I think there is a place for both.
Choosing to use the ignore function is nothing short of stomping their feet, picking up their toys and leaving the playground. Sadly, it is a reflection of what is wrong with America on many levels. On the plus side, without them actively engaged, it's like shooting ducks in a pond.
Trouble with your method of shooting ducks in the pond is you are the only duckhead on the pond. You are still on my ignore list. Every once in awhile I like to verify why I ignore you. It has nothing to do with temper tantrums and everything to do with eliminating the useless noise that comes from your keyboard. Don't bother replying I won't see it.