What do you think?

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by Panhandle, Feb 20, 2011.

  1. Derek Young

    Derek Young 2011 Orvis Endorsed Fly Fishing Guide Of The Year

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    If you're really concerned about losing a secret spot to someone, you've probably already lost that battle, and likely not to a guide. :)
     
  2. Panhandle

    Panhandle Active Member

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    Derek, you're not a steelheader, huh?
     
  3. Ed Call

    Ed Call Mumbling Moderator Staff Member

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    This thread is about steelhead? I did not read that in the opening post.
     
  4. triploidjunkie

    triploidjunkie Active Member

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    Before this thread dissolves into a pissing match and gets shut down, I really would like more guide input.
     
  5. _WW_

    _WW_ Fishes with Wolves

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    Be up front with the guy before the trip. If he's not comfortable with it, hire someone else. But if he's smart he'll take your money. You're a-coming no matter what and he might as well get a trip out of you before you become a legend. :)
     
  6. Philster

    Philster Active Member

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    I don't think you have to worry. No guide bashing going on. And if Derek (I don't know him) isn't a steelheader, saying he's not isn't an insult, it's an observation which changes the argument. I guided on a ridiculous trout rich (big trout at that!) river system. I could hold the boat mid river on a seam and you could indicator fish it to your heart's content and if the fish were on, we didn't have to move until I got tired of pulling, or you'd stung every fish there. I don't care who saw me, or who I took anywhere.

    Stripers were different. Not only was it "where/when" it was also heavily "how" It was more like florida back country fishing where you had to hit tight targets alot of the time, and you often had to hit them one way, and one way only. Getting a drift under a submerged branch you couldn't see, or scraping just over the top of a gravel bar. If I told you "aim for that duck, and when the swing gets down 45 degrees from our position, if you don't feel the line dragging over bottom retrieve and cast a little higher up river" it wasn't a suggestion. You had to KNOW the river like the back of your hand, and with numerous draught years, there wasn't a whole lot of change.

    Those two scenarios are very different for a "businessman". When you're trying to build a base you give away everything, including the drink in your lunch. Later? That's up to you.
     
  7. Derek Young

    Derek Young 2011 Orvis Endorsed Fly Fishing Guide Of The Year

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    I don't think this discussion is about steelheading, or else (Panhandle, sorry, I don't know your first name) would have said so in the original post. No, I don't pursue or guide for steelhead, out of ethical reasons. This discussion is simply about what a guide's role is in the community - whether they "pimp" the resource as has been stated previously, or provide a valuable "service" within it, which has also been stated previously.

    We don't have to restate that all guides are not the same, behave the same, or that all anglers are either. This is the same argument as gear vs. fly. If you want/need a guide, hire a reputable one that does more good than harm. No-one pisses on their own shoes.
     
  8. Panhandle

    Panhandle Active Member

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    By posting it on the spey forum I assumed it was a given that I was referring to steelhead. You don't guide steelhead for ethical reasons?
     
  9. rick matney

    rick matney Active Member

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    Back to the original question of asking whether you should tell your guide your intentions. I don't think it is necessary to tell them your intentions, they already know by how you act and conservations had before fishing. The first part of the day the guide will ask you a bunch of questions, expectations, etc. I realize that this scenario happens a lot and I have had it bite me several times for showing a client a certain subtle consistently producing honey hole. Most times when you run into your client in that spot you showed him they give you the right a way and that's the way it should be. Nothing wrong for going to those spots to try and catch fish, just remember where you obtained that information and act accordingly.

    Now, on another note....showing a friend is a whole different ball game. Because they are your friends they seem to take more advantage of your guide knowledge. They probably have a real job and don't get to fish that much so they figure "oh he's my friend he won't mind" This has been way more of a problem than a paying customer. Just my experience. I understand the ethical dilemma with fishing and for guiding for steelhead Derek. Good for you, I personally am too selfish to make the ultimate sacrifice.
     
  10. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

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    Hey Rick, I would pay money to see your "Honey" holes.:rofl:
     
  11. Derek Young

    Derek Young 2011 Orvis Endorsed Fly Fishing Guide Of The Year

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    Good point, but you can also spey for trout and other species as well. So, spey casting isn't exclusive to Steelhead fishing. To your second question, yes - I don't guide steelhead for personal, ethical reasons, but I give time, money, and other resources in helping to protect them.
     
  12. Panhandle

    Panhandle Active Member

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    That's cool, thank you. Do you steelhead fish?
     
  13. Derek Young

    Derek Young 2011 Orvis Endorsed Fly Fishing Guide Of The Year

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    I've been privileged to fish some great local water with people who've shared their knowledge and spots, but I don't actively pursue them.
     
  14. Panhandle

    Panhandle Active Member

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    So, are you not a steelheader? I don't mean to keep going on with this, but you seem kind of evasive. If you're a trout dude, cool. If you choose not to steelhead for conservation reasons, even cooler. You chimed in from a guides position so I'm trying to orient myself based on that perspective.
     
  15. rick matney

    rick matney Active Member

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    I bet you would Kerry!