What the heck! Pelletheads in Hosmer (rant) thoughts and a question

Discussion in 'Stillwater' started by bakerite, Jul 19, 2013.

  1. pond monkey

    pond monkey Active Member

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    I sincerely doubt that your fears are warranted Gene...... Hosmer has a long fly only history and it is extremely beautiful and unique even in it's current state...... I think Hosmer has a very good chance becoming a better fishery, maybe a much better with a rainbow trout base. We will see.
     
  2. GAT

    GAT Dumbfounded

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    We'll have to agree to disagree on this one... I'm really touchy about flyfishing only fisheries :D However, as you know, I have no problem with the coastal lakes that rely on planted trout... no problem at all.

    (I didn't make it to Munsel this year... maybe next year. But they're starting to plant some pretty big bows in Olalla plus there's the adult steelhead factor... you never know when you're going to catch one of those guys.)
     
  3. bakerite

    bakerite Active Member

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    Steve Raymond's account stated that although they attempted to spawn, they were not successful due to the winter conditions in the creek. I am really surprised that you say: There is always the possibility that the article is somewhat accurate.... but it could only be so if Atlantic salmon can spawn successfully and have a decent rate survival in Hosmer.....I did not know that was possible....I know that it is stocked every year with catchables.... about an account by one of our top NW writers, who was there and fished the lake for years. As he clearly states, the salmon have not successfully spawned in Hosmer, but the brook trout have. As for survival of the salmon, a lot has changed in the past 40 years. When I was a kid growing up in Edmonds, most of the little lakes in the area were planted with fry, because cormorants weren't a problem and illegal introductions of bass and panfish weren't as widespread. Now the stock catchables right before the opener on many lakes to minimize predation. I would be willing to bet that it would take a few years for the ospreys discover and capitalize on the new food source, thus the years of great fishing. I don't profess to know all the answers to the problems with this fishery. I'm unhappy with the ODFW for not figuring out a good way to fix this fishery.
     
  4. pond monkey

    pond monkey Active Member

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    Just call me a skeptic... sorry, if something doesn't make sense, I question it.... Raymond's account is all ancedotal..... he is just a writer...
    He says they do not spawn, I assume that is correct and that is why the state continues to stock it annually with catchables.... Even then for a 10 incher to grow to 4-6 pounds that would 3-4 more full years...... that just seems so unlikely in that environment and then they just disappeared and there are no photos.... this is like bigfoot....
     
  5. pond monkey

    pond monkey Active Member

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    BTW Cormorants love to swallow 8"-12" trout......In the Willamette valley cormorants feed on hatchery trout all winter long In the spring osprey move in until the fish learn to go deep.......
     
  6. Drifter

    Drifter Active Member

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    WOW so much to comment on!

    First over in eastern Oregon = thief is awesome for sure and it will fish good again next spring.

    Malheur is also a very good lake on the right years, give it 2 years and it should fish like mad. I liked it over thief because of less pressure and the rising rainbows on the mayfly hatch. I caught trout trying to push 6 pounds two years ago that were beautiful (fingerling planted) from oak springs hatchery in Central Oregon.

    Buelah = It was to dirty and low this early spring when I fished it and had to leave. the late summer drought took it's toll on all the lakes over east last year but this lake has native bows that are very big that spawn in the river and also bulls are native and get to 25 inches. the native bows grow to 8 pounds from what the bio told me! the stocked trout have not held over because it was drained almost every year from the late 90's trough the mid 2000's but the last 3 years they have kept it at 35% percent full because of bull trout studies that proved the bulls did better when water was left in the res. over winter for forage fish the bulls feed on. this res. should fish awesome with very large native (red-side lake trout that spawn in the river) and hold overs living 3 or more years. you are not supposed to target the bulls! I will spending some time next spring here for sure!!! THIS INFO COMES FROM THE ODFW WEBSITE on buelah res bull trout studies and even the hatches and trash fish the trout feed on. I also talked with the local BIO out of Ontario Oregon at least tree times this early spring on Beulah res.

    Unity res. has some big-big rainbows just does not fish that well with the normal fly fishing tactics and has to be fished early because of warm water. but If I lived in the area (Baker-La Grande) you would see me on these lakes all spring long - no reason to fish anywhere else if you ask me!

    What surprised me was most trout that are planted in these eastern Oregon lakes are oak-springs rainbows from Central Oregon which if they can hold over are very good rainbows growing big and deep! I had pics but had a computer crash and lost most of my pics from last season but reports of some 27 inch rainbows were report from some of my bait fishing friends from La Grande last spring.

    As far as triploids? well if there are native fish in a lake than that is the best choice to protect the native species as in the small native cutts or bows like at Crane.

    Davis is on the list to kill and restore! call Brett Hodgens the central Oregon bio for info!

    lava, little lava and many other lakes are now being planted with Crane diploids ! To not put strain on the native Cranebows they started using stock from the diploids from the native cranebows to get eggs from, they did this because the cranebow diploids live through the winters much better than all other stocks they were using when planting hard to hold over res. and lakes like crane prairie. they are using them now in many of the central Oregon lakes around the area. a better holding over fish that can survive for multiple years growing huge and deep - hard fighting line ripping tippet snapping AND rod braking fish!

    We, a couple other WFF members and I just fished with A fly shop owner from the area for one day that works and fishes with the local bio and found out a world of information about Central Oregon lakes and res. we also fished East lake and caught the blackwater rainbows along with browns and Atlantics and chubs.

    The Blackwater bows went to 17 and 18 inches I think was max, and they were just planted last year. the regulations are release of all non marked rainbows (blackwater) to help them live to the size to help the browns eat the chubs. next year this fishery is going to rock! in two years Crane and East being only about 40 miles apart are going to be a "MUST FISH" for every fly fisherman around! from dry fly browns to dry fly bows and Atlantics to indicators in 21 feet of water I was very impressed with the fishery!

    Crane Prairie went through changes and in two years should rock! they stopped planting diploids in 2010 because of fear of spawning with the natives and used other stocks since and the planted fish took a crash. when the guide said in 2009 he would catch 50 to 70 fish a day many going 4 to 7 pounds and hooking 2 or 3 a day over the 7 pound mark now it is mostly native fish which isn't bad but the numbers of fish are way down and could be why the Brook trout fishing was so good this year (reports better brook fishing than in 10 years)

    ODFW just this year planted fin clipped triploid cranebows back in crane. the hopes are they hold over and are not a threat to spawn with the native fish and crane returns to the epic fishery it was from 2000 to 2010. in two years it could be the line braking rod snapping fishery it's supposed to be. It was said the native bows just do not put on the weight as the diploids did, the added stocking brought back crane from the bass and stickleback
    but they had to stop the diploid stocking and used the normal stocking from Oak Springs and those fish just did not survive or hold over like the crane stock stocked fish being crane is a harder lake for trout to over winter.

    Now whats also amazing with crane is "NO MORE STICKLEBACKS" we never saw one and the damsels were everywhere. even the guide said they are gone and they don't know why but the damsels have returned and if the triploids live from this year in two years you better be there for some of the best rainbow fishing in the country for public waters!

    "PROOF"

    NATIVE CRANEBOWS DAMSELS AND BROOKS =
    WFF trip Crane prairie 006.jpg WFF trip Crane prairie 004.jpg WFF trip Crane prairie 012.jpg WFF trip Crane prairie 015.jpg WFF trip Crane prairie 021.jpg WFF trip Crane prairie 026.jpg WFF trip Crane prairie 027.jpg


    East lake blackwater bows and browns along with an Atlantic and fly caught koke and the mayfly hatch at east, notice the light under body of the adult! I caught browns, rainbows, and Atlantics all on dries and the same with indicator fishing with kokes added into the fun! next year East with the blackwater bows going to the 4 or 5 pound mark (should be at least that) will just plain rock for a very diverse fishery!

    WFF trip Crane prairie 032.jpg WFF trip Crane prairie 033.jpg WFF trip Crane prairie 039.jpg WFF trip Crane prairie 044.jpg WFF trip Crane prairie 046.jpg WFF trip Crane prairie 047.jpg WFF trip Crane prairie 035.jpg WFF trip Crane prairie 038.jpg WFF trip Crane prairie 036.jpg WFF trip Crane prairie 037.jpg

    As far as I'm concerned Oregon is on the right track!!! One of my friends also reported catching a 8 pound bow out of lava this spring - can you say "crane stock"
     
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  7. GAT

    GAT Dumbfounded

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    Mark, what's the story with Hosmer? What is the new management plan?

    Good new, BTW, in regards to Davis. Johnny Bass Seed can NOT be rewarded for illegally planting LMB in trout lakes and if nothing is done to remove his bass from Davis, the illegal planting will continue at more and more trout lakes. I heard the problem with killing the lake is the native population of bull trout. Is that a concern?
     
  8. bakerite

    bakerite Active Member

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    Looks like you had a great time Mark! Thanks for the comments and info on our fisheries. So when are they going to stock cranebows into Hosmer (instead of pelletheads!)
     
  9. Drifter

    Drifter Active Member

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    We did not talk about Hosmer! I just don't care about that lake, I caught my Atlantic in the late 70's that was 22 inches and that was that! From another site the plastic boat hatch (canoe-kayak) is insane! and they row right over your line! the last report was that when a drift boater turned in to launch there were at least 50 plastic boats blocking the ramp laying on the road and ramp! No thanks on that it would be just like me to put it in 4 wheel and run them over!. as far as I'm concerned kill the whole thing and plant crane stock at least they are from the area! I don't care about Brooks and Atlantics although they do make some fisheries funner for numbers, I could just care less about them. It would be nice to find out what strain of bows they put in?????????????????????????????????? could of been crane diploids or triploids?????????????????? you wont see me complaining about that - but knowledge is key and I'm to lazy to look it up right now! It can be hard to go through all the studies and stuff from the ODFW site to find exactly what you need! I knew crane had changed and could not find out why and didn't even fish it last year and it is my favorite lake even though it can be hard it's the challenge I love.

    We did not talk much about Davis either, just that it was in line for killing and replanting for trout only which will probably be the crane stock I would imagine.

    I missed a couple takes while talking (indicator down) so became kinda quiet after that ---- HA!
     
  10. Drifter

    Drifter Active Member

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    Bakerite, even if those fish are from Oak-springs those fish should hold over and grow for years! unless they have some other strain for just kill, those oak springs fish are the same as the thief and malhuer fish and I think you know those fish well ;) !
     
  11. GAT

    GAT Dumbfounded

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    As I understand it, the trout they first stocked in Davis were from Klammath Lake.

    I remember fishing Davis when there was not only steelhead size rainbow but also huge schools of mt whitefish. The whitefish disappeared before the LMB were illegally planted.

    Hosmer was such a beautiful lake and unique because of the Atlantics that I'll always miss the place. However, I too can't stand crowds when flyfishing and one reason I don't fish The D or The Met like I once did. The population explosion in Bend and Redmond certainly ran me off some of my favorite waters.
     
  12. Sinkline

    Sinkline Active Member

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    Kraniger, mostly good accurate info. but a little off about Crane. Hodgson is still putting equal numbers of 2N & 3N Oak Springs in Crane. Hodgson has told that studies show there is no interbreeding between the native stock Cranebows & Oak Spring diploids (genetics are still considered pure), still trying to access which has best survival rate. Fall of '11 all the triploided Cranebows died at the hatchery. Fall of '12 no fingerlings were stocked as Hodgson's current strategy is to go back to Spring stocking of fingerlings. Spring of '13 some Cranebow 3N fingerlings went in, but survival of triploided Cranebows was way short of what was planned. Continuation of 2N & 3N Oak Springs went in as well.

    Because they didn't stock fingerlings in Fall of '12, Hodgson put in 5000-catchables (legals) this Spring to offset the lack of first year fish for the "meat hogs" while the transition back to Spring stocking takes hold.

    Hodgson is confident that going back to Spring fingerling stocking will improve the overall population of older class Rainbows. Time will tell. I hope he is correct.


    Randy
     
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  13. Drifter

    Drifter Active Member

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    Well from what we were told the spring creek hatchery fish do not over winter! So to me it doesn't matter if they are still stocking them. didn't help in the late 80's and 90's when bass took over for almost twenty years so why even spend the money on them. the guide was looking for hatchery fish and finally caught two 6 inch hatchery fish from the triploid stocking of crane stock this spring. well at 6 inches they are real hard to hook and all the other fish we landed were native cranebows. the diploid crane stock were the stock that helped the lake over the last 10 or so years from what I read and researched.

    As you can see by this years reports (and first hand catching by me) there are more brook trout this year than ever before! just read the ODFW REPORT from this spring on the lake! like the resort says best fishing for brooks in at least ten years.

    Well if numbers go down of one stock be it rainbows - brooks - bass - something will take over. like I discussed WITH the guide I believe the explosion of brooks is because of the down-fall of the crane stock, and whats next - "THE BASS TAKE BACK OVER" they better get the triploid program down of crane stock or the native fish will take another crash and invasive's will take back over. but all the bass fisherman will be jumping up and down with joy and start having fucking tournaments on the lake again! Like the guide pointed out the spring creek stock does not hold over well at all and it takes the crane stock to hold over and get large enough to take the food source over and keep it that way! I myself will pray for the TRIPLOID CRANEBOWS ALL SUMMER LONG.

    You mention Hodgons going to spring stocking, well as far as I know the diploid cranebows were raised longer to survive the bass and planted in the fall so they could not be fished over and grow to good size before the season started. I have only fished the lake for 4 years and didn't fish it at all last year because of high water and Knew something had changed the year before but they don't seem to make a lot of mistakes public on there website like all the triploids dying which the guide knew about and mentioned. Why mess with something that worked, raise the triploids longer and plant them in the fall!

    I was just thinking it'S like they do on the columbia and willy when they herd the fisherman! open the columbia up for sturgeon in one area - close it and open an area in the willy - close both and open the upper columbia above bonni - stop the program that brought back crane before having the replacement triploids down for stocking so there is a crash and than start netting East and bring in blackwater bows so everyone can leave crane and pack the camp grounds at East. for the amount they are charging for camp sites they could afford to a whole bunch of work with all these lakes and rivers in the area.

    I CALL IT HERDING THE CATTLE! AND YES WE ARE THE COWS!

    NEXT when EAST slows down or they quit stocking blackwater (10,000 is not enough by the way) they will poison davis and try and bring it back to what it used to be! hope theres a lot of grass around the camp ground at davis for us to feed on!

    hodgson is doing a much better job than that weiss or what ever his name was that called Davis his bass hatchery in the Bend paper years ago - thank god he's gone! and two thumbs up for Hodgons because I know he is at least trying.

    AND BY THE WAY WELCOME TO THE SITE, IT'S A GOOD ONE!!! we can actually chat about conservation and ODFW plans without being flamed by the gear chuckers! and to let you know i am formally fishcentral! We chatted on the other site but I can't hardly stand that site anymore - this one rocks!!!
     
  14. Sinkline

    Sinkline Active Member

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    The biologist in charge back when the first illegally introduced bass was caught and made public was, Ted Fees. Ted told me, "Randy, don't worry about those bass the water is too cold and they will never populate" Unfortunately, we all know that isn't how it turned out. :-(

    Hodgson is convinced that the bass, pelicans, and commorants are not the cause of low survival numbers of Fall stocked fingerlings. He feels that the young fish are starving to death as the food supply is so much less through the Fall and into the Winter. I hope he is correct and we all enjoy a better population of Rainbows in Crane for the future. At any rate, I applaud biologist Hodgson for his efforts at trying to solve the puzzle.

    I fish crane more weeks than not during the open season. Like you, the last couple years we are catching many more wild fish than clipped fish either 2N or 3N. We caught more Brookies last year than this year, but still some nice Brooks this season.

    Great fishing for large Kokes between 15"-18" routinely the last 2-years. The Kokes eat any color or size pupa we are hanging for Rainbows! Very spirited fighters and jumpers in the shallow water of the Prairie! :)

    Edit: I just saw your edit FC, glad to know who you are on this site. Respect.


    Randy
     
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  15. GAT

    GAT Dumbfounded

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    The number one thing the ODF&W should stop doing is allowing B.A.S.S. tournaments to take place at Crane when the LMB in the lake were illegally introduced. What kind of message does that send to Johnny Bass Seed?

    I once asked a ODF&W official about the bass in Crane and he told me that bass anglers also buy fishing licenses... pretty much sums it up for me.

    If you can't tell, I don't go along with the 80 percent of the polices of the ODF&W.