why speyrods?

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by clockwork, Oct 15, 2004.

  1. clockwork

    clockwork New Member

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    im not seeing a practical niche for speyrods. perhaps i dont understand them but they seem to be the big fad these days but why? as i understand they are primarily for throwing heavy flies long distances but do they have a practical advantage over say an 8wt with WF line?? i just fished an 8wt WF 9' setup for the first time a weekend or two ago at the GRonde and i could cast into my backing and im no master caster either. why would i need to cast further than that? first of all few rivers are big enough to where i would need to and furthermore, you are restricted by your backcast and ability to wade out to gain clearance in the rear. if you are casting that far, chances are you are casting over a seam that will mess up your drift and i suppose mending at that distance would be difficult. they dont seem practical for short casts either. if ease of using two hands is the issue, you can use two hands with a conventional rod. am i missing the point? thanks-ryan
     
  2. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

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    Just because spey rods afford you the ability to cast long distances does not mean you have to make every cast to the full extent of you ability. Short cast are possible with a spey rod. You do not need to wade into the water up to your tits to cast a spey rod. You only need a few inches of water to anchor the line. And how are you casting your single hander without free space behind you? When I fish rivers like the Ronde with a spey rod I fish it just the same as I would with a single hander. The difference is my fly is in the water more and longer because of more efficient casting. I put in half the effort to cast the spey rod then I do to cast a single hander therefore I can fish longer with less fatigue. I have better line control with the longer rod. I can fish many different styles, everything from the swing to dapping with more efficiency. I can wake a fly better with more control with the longer line. Should I go on?
     
  3. Big K1

    Big K1 Large Member

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    You don't need much room behind you with a two hander and a shorthead. I see that as a big advantage. Less fatigue over the course of the day and I enjoy casting them and fishing on the swing.
     
  4. Matt Burke

    Matt Burke Active Member

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    Ryan,

    We can do one of two things here. Seeing as how we were going to go do a hunt and fish thing, I'll show you in person the advantges on the water and then we can go blow away some grouse. I'm free on Sunday morning until 1 PM and then I have to cut out for work. In fact, That is my schedule for all of next week with Monday off. I have my small game permit now so we're good there. I can meet you in Fall city, fish the Snoqalmie and then run up I-90 looking for grouse. Or, we could meet in Monroe, fish the Skykomish and run up Highway 2 looking for grouse. Monroe is farther for you and besides, with all the construction on Highway 2, it sucks with delays of 45 to an hour. Name the day and it will be a lot easier to demonstrate the two techniques.
     
  5. Nooksack Mac

    Nooksack Mac Active Member

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    Spey fishing plusses and minuses

    Plus:

    Less need for a lot of open space behind you for your backcasts. (Note: you can do similar spey casts with single-hand rods, but usually, one has to have spey experience to use them. Many fly casters don't even know the basic roll cast.)

    Easy handling of larger flies: In general, spey rods are more efficient with larger line sizes; a size 6 is a featherweight.

    Less stressful to cast: This is counter-intuitive, since a spey rig is obviously much heavier than a single-hander of the same line rating. But once you've learned how to cast, the enormous power of the rod does most of the work. And it distributes its stresses to your body more equitably, leaving you much less tired and sore at the end of the day.

    Much better line control: This may be the most important advantage. Fly fishing is as much about fly control through mending as it is about line-launching. A spey rod is a magnificent line-control tool.

    Ease of long-distance casting: This needs some qualification: Major spey casting distance competitions are typically won with casts around 150 feet. But typical spey casters can't cast beyond 90 feet or so -- nor do they need to. A spey rod makes all-day casts in the 70-90-foot range. Casting similar distances with a single-hander is certainly feasable -- but it's an athletic endeavor (double-hauling, etc.) that gets tiring before long.

    It's more fun and involving: The various spey casts are somewhat more involved than single-hand casting. The difference between a successful and a failed spey cast is usually a subtle change of power, timing, placement, etc. As a result, a good spey casts feels almost like a magic feat, like a 300-foot drive down the middle of the fairway. If spey fishing seems like a cultish subdivision of fly fishing - well, it is. We like it that way.


    Minuses:

    Expense: Spey tackle tends to be more expensive: All that graphite scrim, plate-sized reels and hyperthyroid lines do cost more.

    Finicky: A spey rod is a magic wand with the right line, and a log with the wrong one. Spey anglers do a lot of testing and discussion to find the right lines for their rod and casting style.

    Range-limited: Spey tackle is at a disadvantage with fishing that involves a lot of stripping back of the fly, such as with Pacific salmon. (Shorter belly lines work better here than the extended belly lines.) And spey rods lose a lot of their advantages when fishing where streams are small and casts are short. When I'm fishing the upper North Stilly in late summer, where casts average less than 50 feet, I usually go back to a one-handed rod.
     
  6. Bob Triggs

    Bob Triggs Stop Killing Wild Steelhead!

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    What do you mean it's not for short distances?
    You just need to take lessons from Mac! :p
     
  7. clockwork

    clockwork New Member

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    Matt- any other day id love to but i cant this weekend because we've planned a float on the GR. but i'll take you up on that for later in the week or the following weekend. lets make a date. -ryan
     
  8. Philster

    Philster Active Member

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    There's no reason to use them... None at all... They are useless and stupid. Keep using your one handed rods... In fact, I need you to... I don't tie flies at all anymore... I just harvest the ones from trees single handed fishers leave behind... Just one more way spey rods save me time :p
     
  9. Jay Allyn

    Jay Allyn The Poor-Student Fly Fisher

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    The ability to send seagull sized flies to the other side of the river. Also no back cast, you can cast acrossed the river with your back up against the bushes.

    But I still don't have one and probably won't for a long time.
     
  10. alpinetrout

    alpinetrout Banned or Parked

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    Chicks dig the long rod.
     
  11. Old Man

    Old Man Just an Old Man (NFR)

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    Well maybe in the hands of someone who likes them they are the thing to use. But if you can't cast one don't go out of your way to buy one. I must be the only one that can't cast one. But I find that the places that I fish I really don't need one. Most streams are no wider than 50' where I fish. As I don't like big water. So I stay away from wide streams like the Sky and the Skagit. I couldn't hit the other side of the Skagit with a gun let alone a fly line.

    I guess that so many people pushing you toward them made me push back and don't want one. I have it all but don't enjoy it. No I won't sell it as some times I play with it(the speyrod).

    Jim
     
  12. GreenButt

    GreenButt New Member

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    My rookie opinion: Personally I got a bit bored after casting one-handers my whole life and broke into spey 2 yrs ago for a new challenge. Got my wish -its a big challenge for me! I study hard on the experts and my mistakes and yet my line still lands in a pile sometimes. Its not easy but what it teaches you about line handling is invaluable, and completely transferable to your one handed casts. Now I see hauling sink tips and big flies as a major chore with a one hander. For trout I crave the lightness of the single, but now prefer long belly lines. Try it, you'll like it!
     
  13. Verne

    Verne Member

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    I have been trying to become competent with a spey rod this summer at the advanced age of 66 because I was finding casting all day with a heavy rod (7/8/9 wt) left me with a great deal of discomfort.
    The results are that
    !. I am improving every time out.
    2. It is true that when you do it right it feels effortless.
    3. Matching lines and rods is a challenge and it is hard to improve until you get them matched up.
    4. I am much less fatigued after fishing all day.
    5. I find landing large fish to be somewhat awkward.
    6. I am now able to consistently cast further than I could with a one-handed rod.
    7. I can control line drift better except of course with short heads.

    It surprises me that most spey casters I observe cast only about 40' of line. If I only wanted to cast 40' I could do it one-handed without undue fatigue.
    :beer2: :beer1:
     
  14. calebsb

    calebsb New Member

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    It is my understanding that there are no spey rods, only spey casts. Marketers love to microcategorize (that's definitely not a word) their wares to convince you that you're underequipped. The spey techniques can be used with pretty much any rod but the long rods can do some pretty cool things, like dead drift the opposite bank with minimal mending effort. I still haven't gotten the hang of them and don't own one but I often use techniques copied from 2-handed flyrodders just with my 10-08. There is an interesting thread on this subject at

    http://www.stripermoon.com/cgi-bin/...://www.stripermoon.com/talkshop13&msg_num=206
     
  15. Jerry Daschofsky

    Jerry Daschofsky Moderator Staff Member

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    Alot of good info. You don't need them to just boom long casts with them. In fact, I think most of my casts with my spey was on casts of 50' max. BUT, was in areas were even roll casting (or using a spey cast) on a single hander just wasn't cutting it. That extra length of the rod does make a difference. Plus, I've found it easier to do a speycast with a two hander then a single hander. A dear friend of mine who is a long time spey user (learned to cast a spey as a child in BC some 40+ years ago) to try using it on a single hander. Worked great. But didn't get the distance I could attain. But on smaller streams, I do run the DT fly line on my single handers during the summer and use spey casts on my old RPL 7100.

    I think if you have the money, and fish some heavily overgrown rivers (those of us who fish the Olypen rivers for example) they come in handy. I even toss one in my boat with me, eventhough I'm fishing from it most of the time. But will get out and hit a bank or two. That's when I pull the spey rod out. Plus, it's not a "craze". Been around a long time. Just finally hitting our hands. I have a feeling it's here to stay, not a "flash and burn" like some fads (I remember when people said Rap would last a year or two lol). It's a great "tool". Do I use them all the time? Nope. But there are instances they work great. Why I have mine. Just another tool in my fishing arsenal.