Wild Steelhead??

Discussion in 'Steelhead' started by jessejames, Nov 25, 2004.

  1. jessejames

    jessejames Flyslinger

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    I had my 6 month check-up yesterday with my Cardiologist. His Father was the longtime manager of the fish hatchery at Orofino Idaho on the Clearwater. He told me that his Dad and the current manager of the hatchery had an unwritten agreement with the Indian officials (Nez Pierce) that required them to only fin clip 80% of the hatchery fish to allow more returned fish for the tribe. There has been a lot of talk about the number of wild steelhead that fishermen are having to release in the Snake and the Clearwater this year. Maybe the're not all wild fish after all.
    jesse clark
     
  2. Bob Triggs

    Bob Triggs Stop Killing Wild Steelhead!

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    I have no doubt that there are many "Unmarked Steelhead" out there in our region's rivers that are of hatchery origin.
     
  3. Chris Bentsen

    Chris Bentsen Active Member

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    Same thing on the Methow. Most of the fish are unmarked fish of hatchery origin. You can tell the difference by looking at their dorsal fin. The wild fish have beautifully perfect dorsals, the hatchery fish do not.
    Chris
     
  4. spanishfly

    spanishfly Steelberg

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    I spoke with a guy fishing the Ronde this year and that same topic was discussed. Upon telling him how we were catching more “natives” than “hatchery” fish. He explained how he had bellied up next to an Idaho G & F officer at the local tavern and got to talking with him. Apparently the hatchery in Idaho is not clipping 50% of the fish released misleading those of who catch them and assume their “natives”…I’m new to the steelhead fishing game but it seems like it defeats the purpose of protecting the future genetics of a native species.

    So the native steelhead I caught were they truly native??? I’ll never know but it was awesome catching them :thumb:

    Dennis
     
  5. Brian Simonseth

    Brian Simonseth Banned or Parked

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    I’ll check on this (with people in the Fish Program in Olympia), but in 2005 all steelhead are suppose to be mark in Washington. If I remember right there about 80% marked now.
     
  6. BOBLAWLESS

    BOBLAWLESS New Member

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    This is justa stink, a wretched, foul odor that emmanates from a rather evil practice: hatcheries. :mad:

    And they count these unclipped hatch brats as wild in census taking. It is why we were told in Bremerton that the wild runs were healthy, no problem to kill off a few thousand more. :mad:

    I will release all steellhead, even if those I am releasing that I believe to be wild are in fact Indian or hatchery fakes.

    Bob, the Wouldn't you think with the eminent extinction of wild fish at hand, some of the humans on the WDFW would act as humans? Hell no, I guess. :mad:

    Forget the adipose lies: Here is a wild fish--

    He has his adipose.
    He has beautifully marked fins.
    His coloration and dots are wonderful.
    He is usually more than six pounds.
    You catch him in late spring.
    He fiights like a steelhead, long and hard.
    You can just tell that he is special and should be released if we want more of them.
    He carries a tag that says, "Bob loves me."
     
  7. Brian Simonseth

    Brian Simonseth Banned or Parked

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    Bob wrote:

    "He has his adipose.
    He has beautifully marked fins.
    His coloration and dots are wonderful.
    He is usually more than six pounds.
    You catch him in late spring.
    He fiights like a steelhead, long and hard.
    You can just tell that he is special and should be released if we want more of them.
    He carries a tag that says, "Bob loves me." "

    Very nice!! :thumb:
     
  8. South Sound

    South Sound Member

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    Personally I would have a hard time killing either. Just because one was from a hatchery does that mean that it did not travel to places that I will never go, further than I will ever travel in a few year, and work harder to reproduce then I would ever think about doing. Either way, I am impressed.
     
  9. Northlake27

    Northlake27 Member

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    Bob wrote:
    "And they count these unclipped hatch brats as wild in census taking. It is why we were told in Bremerton that the wild runs were healthy, no problem to kill off a few thousand more."

    Actually, yes, in a black and white world, you're right. We'd probably be better off having never had hatcheries. That's what pretty much all scientific literature tells us. All WDFW-indian fisherman conspiracies aside, there are a number of hatchery operations in the northwest (and the northeast and elsewhere) that operate with the intention of boosting native runs (i.e. 'supplementation') - not with the specific intention of increasing catches for commercial and native fisheries (i.e. 'production'). Plus, the method of not clipping some fish will also result more fisherman downstream NOT being able to keep fish.

    On the Methow, Wenatchee, Entiat, Okanogan/Similkameen, there is a huge number of hatchery-origin fish that are not clipped. It's not an issue of artificially increasing the counts of wild fish. These are the progeny of parents where at least one (ideally both) was wild, which were specifically crossed together at the hatchery to do the least amount of domestication to the population at large. The smolts are acclimated in ponds in the upper watersheds of the basins to encourage them to return to the upper watersheds to spawn there naturally. They're ad-clipped to decrease the chance that they're killed.

    Biologists take samples from these fish to give escapement estimates for wild and hatchery fish to each river. Origin is determined by scale sampling which is very accurate. It's not done solely based on whether or not they have an adipose clip. Because of the way the estimates are done, its not possible to over or underestimate the wild or hatchery component, it's going to be proportionally accurate.

    The point of the regulation is not to fool anglers. The rule on the upper Columbia is 'no retention of steelhead without an absent ad-fin with a healed scar' not 'no retention of wild fish'. The point is to attempt to increase natural spawning in the river while at the same time operating within the reality that we're not getting rid of commercial or sport fisheries anytime soon. Might not be a glorious reality but without it, I don't believe we'd have salmon on steelhead in many of our upper Columbia tributaries.
     
  10. Northlake27

    Northlake27 Member

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    Oh, oh, oh...don't flame Northlake27 for that last message. He's my dad!

    I'm over at his house digesting Turkey and lots of wine! I can't figure out how to sign out of his account on his computer and login as myself!
    jackchinook
     
  11. pwoens

    pwoens Active Member

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    split personality??? Did you forget your meds today??? :rofl: :rofl: :p :p Just kidding of course :thumb:
     
  12. Brian Simonseth

    Brian Simonseth Banned or Parked

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    OK, before to many get over heated maybe we should ask these people what's going on?

    John Andrews
    Regional 1 Director
    8702 North Division Street
    Spokane, Washington 99218
    Office Hours: Monday - Friday
    9:00 a.m. - 4:00 p.m.
    Telephone (509) 456-4082
    Fax (509) 456-4071
    teamspokane@dfw.wa.gov

    Dennis Beich
    Regional 2 Director
    1550 Alder Street NW
    Ephrata, Washington 98823-9699
    Office Hours: Monday - Friday
    9:00 a.m. - 4:00 p.m.
    Telephone (509) 754-4624
    Fax (509) 754-5257

    Jeff Tayer
    Regional 3 Director
    1701 South 24th Avenue
    Yakima, Washington 98902-5720
    Office Hours: Monday - Friday
    9:00 a.m. - 4:00 p.m.
    Telephone (509) 575-2740
    Fax (509) 575-2474

    Bob Everitt
    Regional 4 Director
    16018 Mill Creek Boulevard
    Mill Creek, Washington 98012-1296
    Office Hours: Monday-Friday
    9:00 a.m. - 4:00 p.m.
    Telephone (425) 775-1311
    Fax (425) 338-1066

    Guy Norman
    Regional 5 Director
    2108 Grand Boulevard
    Vancouver, Washington 98661
    Office Hours: Monday-Friday
    9:00 a.m. - 4:00 p.m.
    Telephone (360) 696-6211
    Fax (360) 906-6776
    teamvancouver@dfw.wa.gov

    Sue Patnude
    Regional 6 Director
    48 Devonshire Road
    Montesano, Washington 98563
    Office Hours: Monday-Friday
    9:00 a.m. - 4:00 p.m.
    Telephone (360) 249-4628
    Fax (360) 664-0689
     
  13. cuponoodle breakfast

    cuponoodle breakfast Bigfoot is blurry

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    Northlake27, thank you for a very informative post.
     
  14. ak_powder_monkey

    ak_powder_monkey Proud to Be Alaskan

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    Same is true for stocked vs. wild trout, haven't really noticed it on salmon (haven't caught to many stocked salmon)
     
  15. Ken Hunter

    Ken Hunter Member

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    The interesting part of this thread and many others like it is the common need for accurate information. The State holds it's cards too close to the vest. The Wenatchee is a good example. How long have we been hearing that some type of a season will happen maybe next year.

    If the fishing public had access to their goals and results we could cope with the process or try to change it in a business like way. Maybe if we demanded the WDFW open up their books, some of these issues could be corrected.

    Ken