Win for mining, loss for clean water and taxpayers

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Steve Slater, Dec 6, 2017.

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  1. freestoneangler

    freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

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    After taking care of that, they'll direct their attention to government retirees sucking up pension and benefits they feel are unfair and no longer want to be responsible for.

    Come on Roper, these threads really could use your input.
     
  2. Roper

    Roper Idiot Savant

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    OK, but know that I won’t tolerate any political crap.

    Let’s start with some questions, how much has the government had to shell out for cleanups in the past? How often does it happen? What has been the impact so far?

    From what I read they’re not repealing anything merely not going forward with a proposal.

    How was it determined the current process is acceptable and by who?

    Facts and data folks, not hate and vitriol.
     
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  3. freestoneangler

    freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

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    The new banner & motto hanging in the halls of congress... see, you're contributing already. :D
     
  4. MileHighFlyGuy

    MileHighFlyGuy Active Member

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    Permanently, one hopes.
     
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  5. TDB

    TDB Active Member

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    Flyborg and quilbilly are my WFF spirit animals.
    Why pray tell would it be bad that mining companies demonstrate to the EPA they have the financial means clean up their sites backed by bonds or insurance?

    If Senator Murkowski is correct in her calling the regulation "duplicative" that would mean that the companies would have already secured the bonds and/or insurance, in which case it is hardly "burdensome" for them to demonstrate it to the EPA.

    Logic and reason bootlickers, not BS and whataboutery.
     
  6. napawino

    napawino Banned or Parked

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    Ah yes....never overlook the whataboutery.
     
  7. quilbilly

    quilbilly Big Time Hater

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    EPA estimates the clean-up liability backlog at metal mines to be $20-54 billion – far more than the entire annual budget of the agency.

    http://westernpriorities.org/maps/2015/minecleanup/

    There's about 12-15 billion worth on public land referenced in the map above.


    Basic info for those who are interested is avaiable.....seeing as you all have computers, it's out there.

    Complex data sets don't make it easy for me ( ain't got time to do all the crosschecks needed to insure funds aren't double counted, particularly in grants to States from the Feds) to separate the various funding sources, and agencies both state and federal involved in both cleanup, compliance and follow up, and don't forget Superfund sites (mines definitely represented here, disproportionately to other industries) but lets just say....round numbers...around 21 billion since 1997, that's the taxpayers share of the total cost.
    The PRP (potentially responsible party) when not bankrupt, is liable for the costs, but .....if I have to try and explain that process, it'll take all night.

    You should look it up @Roper, I find folks learn best when they do it themselves.
    That way you have 'politics' not in the picture....it's a pretty ugly deal..but not unusual. Privatize the profits, socialize the costs. Great business model when you think about it.
    :)
     
  8. Roper

    Roper Idiot Savant

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    How nice to have a civil response with no name calling of politicians or each other. Thanks @quilbilly.

    I read these types of posts to learn more about conservation issues but get turned of by all the petty sniping.
     
  9. quilbilly

    quilbilly Big Time Hater

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    No problem roper, but....I can snipe with the best of 'em.

    And the numbers above represent metal mines only, coal adds to that number.
     
  10. napawino

    napawino Banned or Parked

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    I blame the GOP.
     
  11. triploidjunkie

    triploidjunkie Active Member

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    Holy shit! Flyborg! Haven't seen you in these parts in awhile.
     
  12. triploidjunkie

    triploidjunkie Active Member

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    Any of Y'all been to Kellogg, Idaho? The whole area is a Superfund site due to Silver mines being allowed to rape and pillage, take the profit, declare bankruptcy, and split. Leaving us to foot the bill.
    That's one gorgeous trout stream that runs through there. Too bad it's so polluted it won't support insect life, let alone fish.
     
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  13. Klickrolf

    Klickrolf Active Member

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    Depends on how you extract them and how you conserve the remains! Common sense is not common anymore.
    [​IMG]
     
  14. b_illymac

    b_illymac Member Active

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    do you have an example of a mine that has done things, "right"?
     
  15. Klickrolf

    Klickrolf Active Member

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    Sure would and have. But President Donald J. Trump hasn't disappointed me in any way...NONE! He has, from day 1, attempted to fulfill his campaign promises. Many have been fulfilled via exec. order and the ones he's still working on are stalled by congress, small "c".
    There is no better judgement of a man than that of a "man who keeps his word"!

    Do you have an understanding of why the EPA rules are as they are? Get that one explained and I'll scramble for a reason this new legislation is needed. I did read the link.