Wolves on the Westside?

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by scottr, Aug 19, 2012.

  1. Kent Lufkin

    Kent Lufkin Remember when you could remember everything?

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    That goes without saying, although in my earlier post I was actually referring to documents like unedited videotaped or recorded speeches and the Congressional voting record, not editorial (mis)interpretations.

    K
     
  2. Kent Lufkin

    Kent Lufkin Remember when you could remember everything?

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    BTW, at 331 posts, this has got to be close to an all-time record for a thread here. I'm finally packed and all I need is ice for a week-long outing to northern Idaho and willing cutthroat with a group of long-time fishing friends. I'll check back in to see how much gas this topic still has in the tank.

    Surprise me!

    K
     
  3. Jason Rolfe

    Jason Rolfe Wanderer

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    Have fun out there Kent. I'm sure the wolves won't go away quite that quickly.

    J
     
  4. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

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    Hey, what about my website?! You can't leave now.







    Have fun Kent.
     
  5. JE

    JE Active Member

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    I just watched "The Grey" last night and plan on electrical taping a pocket knife and broken mini airplane alcohol bottles to my knuckles when I head into wolf country like that badass Liam did.
     
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  6. Alex MacDonald

    Alex MacDonald Dr. of Doomology

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    I figure my PPK and a tux top should suffice...How do you say "shaken, not stirred", in canine?
     
  7. TallFlyGuy

    TallFlyGuy Adipossessed!

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  8. TallFlyGuy

    TallFlyGuy Adipossessed!

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  9. Jeremy Floyd

    Jeremy Floyd fly fishing my way through life

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    If you make it up here (any of you), in the winter, I can set you up with some of the ranchers here who will drive you around to get you set up to shoot wolves.. They are all over.
     
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  10. Flyborg

    Flyborg Active Member

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    "Facts" and "Science" are loose terms in an age of viral knowledge and corporatocracy. "Experts" are born (paid for) at necessity, speak their observations and have them instantly memed across the internet by thousands of slobbering supporters who will repeat anything they can quote as fact because it supports their underlying foundation of personal belief. I don't think we've seen a single peer-reviewed study in this entire thread. We've only seen basic empirical research, which is a good start for real science, but empirical observations do not establish fact and are only a small part of a process that makes something scientific knowledge.

    Science has been relegated to a profit tool, slightly less expensive than marketing. We don't live in an era of "knowledge for the sake of knowledge" or "truth for the sake of integrity". The simple truth is, unless you've personally verified a "fact" through your own use of good scientific method, you're taking someone elses word for it. You're believing in what you haven't seen personally. Which is faith. Not knowledge. So we need to take a good hard look at our preachers of scientific faith, and just like everything else, establish their motives and take what they have to say with a grain of salt. For whatever reason, the "experts" on the wolf subject seem to have a lot of ulterior motives.

    Separating truth from fiction in threads like this is nigh impossible. Resorting to ad hominem is shortsighted and supercilious if we consider how limited the actual knowledge on the subject is. It certainly does nothing but make us look like arrogant bastards (which I guess most of us are :rolleyes: ).

    In closing, I'll leave with a quote from an actual scientist -- "The truth may be puzzling. It may take some work to grapple with. It may be counterintuitive. It may contradict deeply held prejudices. It may not be consonant with what we desperately want to be true. But our preferences do not determine what's true."- Carl Sagan
     
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  11. dflett68

    dflett68 Active Member

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    best paragraph i've ever read on this forum. can't wait to see the church of science respond. of course, it's not possible to have a rounded world-view without the kind faith you reference, because there's too much to know for any person to experience themselves. we have to pick and choose what we really care to know for ourselves through experience and personal observation, and even then it is mostly chasing the wind. which, to me, has always been the best reason to leave room for the possibility that i am wrong, the experts are only partly right, and the person i am currently debating with most likely has something to offer that is useful and at least partly true.
     
  12. Flyborg

    Flyborg Active Member

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    Don't get me wrong--I hold science, truth and knowledge in very high regard. I just happen to think it's current place in society is misjudged, misused and misaligned with peoples perceptions. What we often state is science is anything but. I think it was Sagan again who said that we depend greatly on science and technology but the masses really don't understand what science is (that's probably a poor interpretation of the quote on my part). And again, as you pointed out, you can't form a rounded worldview without faith--whether it's faith in science or something else, there simply isn't enough time to do all the math ourselves. That's why I hold such a disdain for fundamentalism. What people regard as truth is rarely known as truth, so not allowing room for other viewpoints seems insincere in honest discourse.
     
  13. TallFlyGuy

    TallFlyGuy Adipossessed!

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    Interesting take, but for me its boring relativism. If you doubt everything, nothing gets done or learned to carry onto the next step. No progression because you are always doubting something you already "learned". Dude, we are talking philosophy on a flyfishing board on a post discussing wolves LOL. Jarrod, lets fish and talk this over.
     
  14. Flyborg

    Flyborg Active Member

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    I don't doubt everything, I just hold the truth in higher regard than most ;)

    Is it relativism? Probably, but due to the internet and corporate sponsorship of knowledge, the concept of relativism is more real and dangerous than ever. If you don't hold the truth in very high regard, you'll believe anything. Does that hold back progress? No, it makes sure we have the right kind of progress. Being skeptical of the truth doesn't mean you believe in no truth.
    And this is completely relevant to the discussion at hand. People have been quoting empirical observation and presenting it as science and fact, when it's neither. It's just observation.
     
  15. Flyborg

    Flyborg Active Member

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    And hell yeah, lets fish after work this week.