Wolves on the Westside?

#76
Wolf predation on livestock is understandably an issue with livestock owners. What is more difficult to grasp is the ill will toward wolf predation on deer and elk in WA. Coyotes kill hundreds of times more deer and have since wolves were extirpated, and I never hear a peep of complaint about that ongoing predation. This makes me think that much of the angst has to do with wolves in WA and wolf predation being "new" as opposed to a natural and ongoing occurrence around here.

It's oddly funny that discussions about wolves tend to be visceral, like discussions about religion and abortion, rather than rational. And all intelligent folks know that you cannot argue with visceral knowledge, that which you "know" in your gut.

Sg
The difference is a coyote you can hunt 24/7/365 with no tags and no limit on them... the wolf is a protected species and if there's predation on livestock, well then there's a study by a team of wildlife biologist to determine what killed it, then a special meeting by the feds/state wildlife bioligists to determine what to do with the pack (if it's a wolf kill). They will decide to dart and collar a member(s) of the pack and study it for 6 months. When the pack kills again there will be a decision to eliminate a few members of the pack. They will call in federal wildlife sharpshooters to fly around in a helicopter and shoot a few members of pack. Pack is still there and same thing keeps re-occuring every year with a new litter. Who's paying the bill on this? A majority of it is payed through liscense fees, sporting goods equipment excise tax.

Well do you want a new boat ramp or state fishing access site... to bad we spent that on trying to manage our wolf population so a guy from NY who doesn't go to the zoo want's to see one in the wild at his convenience.

A wolf is nothing but a large coyote, it will do what it's designed to do and that's kill shit. The root of the issue is the management of this species and lack there of due to the Endangered Species Act.

This brings up questions in itself, how can an animal (the wolf) be endangered when it was re-introduced. That's like saying hatchery trout are now wild trout.
 

Roper

Idiot Savant
#77
You totally misconstrued my post. So I will break it down for you so you can understand :D.... Guns have made killing too easy period....There is no instant gratification in bow hunting....
Thank you for your condescending attitude, it's so refreshing...people make killing too easy, guns are inanimate objects...what is a more respectful way to kill an animal, drive an arrow through their lungs, have it suffer for who knows how long, or drop it with one shot right away? Pardon me, but your position speaks volumes about your ego, nothing of respect for the wildlife.
 

Salmo_g

Well-Known Member
#79
Trustfunder,

If wolves were anywhere nearly as abundant as coyotes, (a) they wouldn't be ESA listed, and (b) they likely could be shot 24/7/365 also. They get special management attention due to their relative scarcity.

Personally, and I'm no wolf specialist, but I am a biologist and ecologist, I think WDFW did pretty well in threading the eye of the needle in regards to the WA wolf management plan. It's not perfect because there is no perfect plan or a plan that would satisfy everyone. However the plan does include the establishment of a limited number of packs in the state, reasonably appropriate to the available range instead of some emotionally derived number, and it includes processes for managing and controlling the number of wolves and their dispersion in the state. What more would an open-minded person want?

Sg
 

Kent Lufkin

Remember when you could remember everything?
#80
Unfortunately, this thread degraded from a respectful discussion on issues to emotional, ad hominum attacks. I sniff thread lockdown coming shortly . . .

K
 
#81
Trustfunder,

If wolves were anywhere nearly as abundant as coyotes, (a) they wouldn't be ESA listed, and (b) they likely could be shot 24/7/365 also. They get special management attention due to their relative scarcity.

Personally, and I'm no wolf specialist, but I am a biologist and ecologist, I think WDFW did pretty well in threading the eye of the needle in regards to the WA wolf management plan. It's not perfect because there is no perfect plan or a plan that would satisfy everyone. However the plan does include the establishment of a limited number of packs in the state, reasonably appropriate to the available range instead of some emotionally derived number, and it includes processes for managing and controlling the number of wolves and their dispersion in the state. What more would an open-minded person want?

Sg
Are we certain that there is a plan like that in effect?
Sounds a little bit like PAY NO ATTENTION TO THAT MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN dialogue to me.
 
#83
Thank you for your condescending attitude, it's so refreshing...people make killing too easy, guns are inanimate objects...what is a more respectful way to kill an animal, drive an arrow through their lungs, have it suffer for who knows how long, or drop it with one shot right away? Pardon me, but your position speaks volumes about your ego, nothing of respect for the wildlife.
Don't play the suffering animal card. Everything on this earth has its place in the circle of life.
 
#85
OB,

Have you read the plan? I did, and as one who is not a wolf specialist, it makes sense to me. Why speculate about that which can be verified? Try reading; information does wonders.

Sg

Well, I for one, am happy that you read the plan and that it makes sense to you. Please let me know when the State starts controlling the packs and how the methods work out. I really don't have to speculate about past performance of those in the we know what is good for the rest of you group I guess that we the tax payers get to pay for the great experiment also. I have read about some of their experiments in the past.
 
#86
What more would an open-minded person want?

You got me thinking now.....

Uhhh... for starters taken off the ESA, no one knows how many wolves are out there (there in 7 states with a pop of??) At what level do they get varmint status or reach carrying capacity... no one knows? How long on the Endangered species list... again? My lifetime I predict.

Ummm... put a budget on wolf management that's funded through people who want to see wolves and re-imbursement of livestock loss. No more leeching off of hunters or elk/deer license fees should finance this nonsense. Pay ranchers a fair market value for any loss to livestock, plus the additional loss of weight caused by wolf harassment. Hey, they had it this way prior to wolves, why should they incur the cost for another’s wants and needs.

Create a FWP state wolf czar (who's a hunter and wolf lover) to make decisions on big game management for states (Montana), who has the balls and leadership to offend people. Take the whole wolf issue out of courts so the wolf loving people can't keep paying lawyers with our taxpayer money. Take all lobbying efforts out of wildlife decisions.

A full disclosure of what the wolf introduction cost the American public, where the funds came from and who's accountable for that decision.

An acknowledgment to those who've conserved this great land since Roosevelt days, that without these hunter dollars, we would have no wolves today.

The right to shoot on site any wolf that steps foot on an ungulate wintering range. The land was funded through license fees, wolf license fees have centuries to catch up.

I'm no biologist but I do know that when I see a wolf gallop across my neighbors horse pasture, a bugle is a rare occurrence bow hunting where there "was" plenty of elk years past, seen 5 moose in 3 years when I use to see that on a day’s drive, makes me think there might be a problem.
 

Jeremy Floyd

fly fishing my way through life
#89
If you are honestly scared of wolves you have obviously forgotten your place in the food chain and probably no longer deserve your placement at the pinnacle.. Would you, could you, do you, cry as vocally about a real danger to your life such as travelling in a motor vehicle?
 
#90
If you are honestly scared of wolves you have obviously forgotten your place in the food chain and probably no longer deserve your placement at the pinnacle.. Would you, could you, do you, cry as vocally about a real danger to your life such as travelling in a motor vehicle?
I haven't forgotten my place at all and am honestly scared of wolves. Fear is a good thing in this case. My fear of that animal makes me respect it and understand that if that animal comes near me, It needs to be taught to fear/respect me as well. It's the people who don't have a fear/respect for that animal that are the problem. It's no secret that almost all wolf attacks, rabies excluded, are from animals that have become socialized to humans to some degree. Do the tens of thousands of people that hike our trail systems every day provide that socialization?

And yes, I am way more vocal about travelling in a motor vehicle. In fact, meet me on the I90 bridge this afternoon where you are pretty much guarenteed to hear at least 30 new uses for the f word at loud decible levels coming from my motor vehicle directed towards people who can not drive.