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You can't have it both ways!

13K views 173 replies 62 participants last post by  jessejames 
#1 ·
I am tired of hearing that people went into a fly shop to check out some new gear, (rods, reels, vises, materials, books, even trying on clothing, boots etc), asking the shop people some questions, and then promptly ordered the item from amazon or some similar site. Sometimes this online ordering was done with a smartphone from the very shops in question. This is just low. Im sorry, but if you think that some screen zombie at amazon is going to help you in any aspect of flyfishing, aside from a cheaper price, then you are totally lost. Don't lament the loss of fly shops in these past few years, and then come bragging here that you saved a lot of money on the internet. Fly Shops are more expensive because they provide merchandise and a service within a highly specialized and diverse set of activities. It is much more than just a job to run a fly shop. For many shop owners this is a way of life. Next time you are in a new location, looking for information on waters, hatches, flys etc, try calling amazon or some other sales site and see how that works out. Pissed! NOTE: (Saturday june 9 4:30 pm) Most of the replies to this topic are so far off topic it is become a sad reminder of what we have lost. And to the people who have a need to attack each other here I say: good thing we have some decent fishing weather coming!
 
#159 ·
"Not really, been to Cape Canaveral and the Deschutes in the last month...and you? I see you're back to attacking all who don't share your point of view...you are at least consistent, I'll say that much."

Oh please tell me whom did I attack? BRsnow? If you think what I had to say to him is an attack then you are the sensitive one. What the hell does my conversation with him have to do with you anyway? You bored or something? Looking for someone to start an argument with? Are you some sort of crusader coming to the rescue of those unable to defend themselves? What is your game?
 
#162 ·
Wow, lot's of questions; I'll answer in order;
Yes
Yes
Conversations are private -- this is an open thread
No
No, no more than you are a sheeple following the herd and piling on
Guess I'd have to say Blackjack (Ping-pong a close second)

...now about your other statement... "Done a little time? If not you have no idea what being someone's bitch is about"... care to elaborate?
 
#161 ·
Well - I like to buy at fly shops; and my consumer world does not revolve around comparing prices on-line or even between local stores. This doesn't mean I'm wealthy - but +/- 20%, a couple hundred bucks here and there - is meaningless.

My time is worth more. It does make a BIG difference if I get service, meaning, if I'm there at the fly shop - and looking at rods - go to counter with intent on casting said rod, and the counter dude is in midst of chitchatting about some lodge in the cayman islands for 10 minutes (or worse, just answers the phone in the first place - without putting the phone guy on hold!!) - I shall walk out and go to another shop. If the dick head at counter puts the guy on hold and hands me a reel and says go try it out, and goes back to yapping, I walk out also. If it happens at second shop, I won't go driving around to a third; I then go on line. Of course, I'd rather not. I like to see what I am buying, inspect the cork, the blank, maybe buy a package....but if lame service keeps me waiting....forget it. It is as if they are doing me a favor by letting me listen to their phone crap, or worse, some asshat who walks in and does the 30 minute fish/story exchange to tie up (excuse the pun) the shop help. I could be standing there with $100 bucks in crap trying to check out - and nobody comes - or worse - he calls in the back for someone to help me? Fuck that - just cut the dude off and sell to me so I can get outta here.

And you wonder why people buy on line? That's the only thing that pushes me there - not money.

So smarten up - people who work at fly shops and think the business is primarily about shooting the breeze - please give your immediate attention - to others in your shop who are there to buy and spend money. If you can't tell the difference, expect your potential customeres to go elsewhere.
 
#170 ·
Well - I like to buy at fly shops; and my consumer world does not revolve around comparing prices on-line or even between local stores. This doesn't mean I'm wealthy - but +/- 20%, a couple hundred bucks here and there - is meaningless.

My time is worth more. It does make a BIG difference if I get service, meaning, if I'm there at the fly shop - and looking at rods - go to counter with intent on casting said rod, and the counter dude is in midst of chitchatting about some lodge in the cayman islands for 10 minutes (or worse, just answers the phone in the first place - without putting the phone guy on hold!!) - I shall walk out and go to another shop. If the dick head at counter puts the guy on hold and hands me a reel and says go try it out, and goes back to yapping, I walk out also. If it happens at second shop, I won't go driving around to a third; I then go on line. Of course, I'd rather not. I like to see what I am buying, inspect the cork, the blank, maybe buy a package....but if lame service keeps me waiting....forget it. It is as if they are doing me a favor by letting me listen to their phone crap, or worse, some asshat who walks in and does the 30 minute fish/story exchange to tie up (excuse the pun) the shop help. I could be standing there with $100 bucks in crap trying to check out - and nobody comes - or worse - he calls in the back for someone to help me? Fuck that - just cut the dude off and sell to me so I can get outta here.

And you wonder why people buy on line? That's the only thing that pushes me there - not money.

So smarten up - people who work at fly shops and think the business is primarily about shooting the breeze - please give your immediate attention - to others in your shop who are there to buy and spend money. If you can't tell the difference, expect your potential customeres to go elsewhere.
Wow, I don't know what to say, but, in the best tradition of this thread, that isn't going to stop me. I live in Seattle and shop in a couple of fly shops in the area -- mostly the Avid Angler, but also Orvis and Puget Sound Fly Company. I highly recommend them all. Sometimes I'm there to buy a handful of feathers or hooks, sometimes to buy a rod or line or reel. It always takes me an hour or more to get done; no that's the wrong way to put it -- it always takes me an hour or more to leave. I guess I'm one of those guys taking up the time of the staff; I hope I'm not driving you out of the shop w/o your purchase, my friends' livelihood depends on you, me and the rest of the community making those purchases.

The stuff I buy in a fly shop, while necessary for my sanity, isn't ever an emergency purchase. The on the water part of the sport, at least for me, isn't a social experience; I enjoy fishing alone and even when I'm off with a partner we're a few hundred feet or yards apart on the water. For me, the social part of the sport does take place in the shops; I listen and learn some (sometimes not), I talk and maybe distribute information, but mostly I get a sense of community of folks who have a common interest. Snarlac stop by the shops when you have some time to spare -- buying equipment isn't supposed to be only a highly efficient business transaction. Who knows, you might meet some people you grow to like.
 
#165 ·

I have to say I completely understand the frustration of a small business owner in the past few years of a luxury sport such as fly fishing. I am sure some of you are thinking, "Luxury"??? Well it is a luxury to be able to go fishing with a $500 plus rod and $200 plus reel, $70 worth of fly line, and a hand full of $3 fly's. Oh and if it is raining, don't forget your $400 jacket all from the local fly shop!
With that said I have to admit I buy almost all my gear and needs from local shops, so owners back off! So why is it I am so loyal to local shops and not buying on Ebay or Amazon? Many have said it here in previous posts, SERVICE!
Think about this, just in the past two years I have purchased for myself and my family a Drift boat, 5 different fly roads and reels, and countless other supplies, all from two local shops. Funny thing though, I live in North Bend. Most of you know the shop closest to my home and due to "SERVICE" I have either bought all of the above from Pacific Fly fishers or RED's. Now why would I drive an hour in either direction? Great advice, great discussion, friendly, knowledgeable, not trying to gouge me, but they make an honest dollar after the unbelievable rate the manufacturers get.
Perception is everything. I love the small shop owners, but if you're loosing my business to others, it is because of the value that I am looking for. Now I don't think for a second that EVERYONE is like me. But, as an owner of a business I would think that my perception of your value is far more important to you than your perception of your value? One makes money the other doesn't mean a thing to those of us paying for your products and services.

Signed,
Simple consumer who lives to fish
 
#172 ·
"This is the most reasonable and accurate post that you have made in this thread.
If this would have been the your reply to the OP we would have probably avoided much of the flaming rhetoric.
You see BR in the first comment you castigasted fly shop owners because they could not make a sale to visitors to the shop that had no intention of buying something. You put all of the blame on the sales team assuming they did nothing to easn the sale, yet did not acknowledge that some folks are just inclined to not buy in brick and morter environments, Then you went on the lump all fly shop owners in a group that needed to learn to close the deal. Most fly shops don't have a little room where they take potential buyers and then bring in the professional closer to make the sale. This is not a car dealership. Most of us fly shop owners know that sometimes it takes a guy two or three visits (and permission from a spouse) before they drop a grand for a rod, reel line etc. Having a goal of trying to get a sale before the customer leaves the shop is good but the real goal for our shop is to give everyone an experience that makes them want to come back, because we can't make money and keep the doors open if people are not going to walk in the door.
Your insight that not all fly fishers make good business owners is correct although not revolutionary. When my son and I began the process of of opening a fly shop we had years of small business experince in our background. Then we enlisted the help of additional small business owners to counsel us. We have a CPA, a banker, a former fly shop owner, a couple of regional manufacturer reps and a an MBA in marketing as a part of our overall management. In addition we have two very supportive and hardworkoing spouses.
Will this guarentee success? No, it will however give us a better chance, the rest is up to market conditions, weather, river flows, the Euro crises and the price of Starbuck coffee.
What pissed me off BR is your arrogant attitude that we shop owners were, as a group, just a bunch of guys who stumbled into the business expecting that the fly fishing world owed us a living.
I hope that in your consulting business that you adopt the approach in the post above rather than your first few posts, I am sure that it will be more palatable to your prospective clients.
The fly shop business is no different than any other retail service business, there are good ones and bad ones the good ones generally succeed and the bad ones do not.
jesse"

To borrow a line from My Cousin Vinny, "dead on balls accurate"! Well said, Jesse.

I have long been a believer in the save our fly shops movement. There once was a great fly shop/tobacco and pipe store right down the road from Orvis in Manchester, VT. I bought 2 great rods there and got some great free instruction in the lot out back from an aging hippie clenching a pipe between his teeth. Awesome..., but he ain't there any more. And then, we lost the Morning Hatch here in Tacoma. After 25 years! And the list goes on. About a month ago, I found out that Brooks Sanford shuttered his Clark Fork Trout and Tackle in St Regis. (He is still running his guide business) Just this week, I was lining up a trip to see my family in Florida and got on the website of the local (and great) shop for reports, etc--they are closing this month. Damn! And one common thread running through these? I'm putting my money on guys going in and trying a rod or trying on waders and getting on line and ordering them. And in the case of a lot of products like Simms, Sage, etc, for the same price just to save sales tax that the shop has no control over.
 
#174 ·
Brooks sold the fly shop business to the folks that run the grocery store in St Regis, they moved it into the store. Brooks still has his outfitting business and meets his clients there. Things were awful tough last year he did not have his first guided trip until july 15 because of the high water. It will be better this year.
jesse
 
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