You guys are all a bunch of lying bastards!!!

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by JesseC, Feb 11, 2012.

  1. Salmo_g

    Salmo_g Active Member

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    I'm a bit confused by the whole leader tippet pound test thing. I have lost fish due to broken leaders, except when I use Maxima. I switched to Maxiuma Chameleon in 1974 after losing several fish to what was probably a bad batch of another material. And I lost a good steelhead while using some shitty 17# flourocarbon, either because it was bad material or my knot just plain sucked. However, except for the Thompson River in B.C., where I use 10# Maxima, I have never, repeat never, had a steelhead break me off while using 8# Maxima leader tippet, including a few over 20 pounds. The way I settled on 8# was when I only had single hand fly rods. I found that I couldn't break any tippet down to 8# Maxima with my strongest fly rod by anything but a straight line pull. I later learned that rods have a certain amount of "lifting" power, which is the maximum weight the rod can lift off the ground without breaking. Damn few rods can lift 8 pounds.

    I haven't done the same test with any of my two-handed rods, and sometimes now use 10# Maxima because Spey rods handle weighted flies so easily, something I didn't use with my single hand rods. Another thing, I cannot believe the number of steelhead I've landed, only to discover a wind knot in my 8# tippet. It's strong stuff. And if you think I baby fish when I play them, you haven't seen me play a fish. I've had guys ask me if I'm trying to break the fish's neck. I pull hard and never yield line unless the fish pulls harder, which may be why only a few fish take out more line that what I was casting at the time of the hookup.

    My thought is that if someone is breaking off fish with 10 or 12# leader tippet, they're tying crummy knots or don't know how to play a fish. Evan's remark about abrasion is an exception if you're dragging your leader across the stones. I try to keep mine above the rocks and do change out tippets when they get abraded. Another thought about leaders and sunk fly fishing. The heavier the leader material, the greater the resistance to sinking. Thinner leaders sink more readily in response to the sinking tip line and fly, weighted or not.

    Sg
     
  2. g_smolt

    g_smolt Recreational User

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    Maxima #10 = Everyone else's #17.

    #16 - #22 fluoro or death.

    Mono γ = 1.05-1.15
    Fluoro γ = 1.7-1.9

    Sinks like a rock...ok, compared to mono.

    Glad the O.P. finally got one on the swing.
     
  3. Jmills81

    Jmills81 The Dude Abides

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    that's a noice!
     
  4. dreamonafly

    dreamonafly Active Member

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    I thought 12lb maxima is more than enough.. I with john about the bad knot.. I been practicing on the perfection loop..
     
  5. g_smolt

    g_smolt Recreational User

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    Speaking of bad knots - the Perfection loop, when tied with mono less than #20, has a break strength of about 65%.

    Lefty's little loop, or the king sling. Better knots, more consistent performance.
     
  6. Evan Burck

    Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

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    Agreed! The perfection loop is definitely not the knot for this scenario.
     
  7. Derek Day

    Derek Day Rockyday

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    I rarely tie anything other than Lefty's non-slip. Best knot ever.
     
  8. Klickrolf

    Klickrolf Active Member

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    Don't want to wade into the "lying bastards" thing but I will address the last few posts.

    Using 15# flouro I had a breakoff on the take near the surface on a wet fly. I was carrying a good 3' of shock loop and boink, it was gone. About 30 days later landed a nice fish on 12# maxima clear, re-tied and found another, nothing but head shakes and it broke the 12# maxima clear in less than 5 seconds. Abrasion resistence might be a key as these fish do have teeth. Now it's 15# maxima and flouro out of the question. My knots are my knots and they've never been a problem in the past, it's the line!! Both of those fish were pigs, the first I saw nicely and the second I felt, also nicely.

    Salmo mentioned 8# maxima was enough, for me it's not even close. Where I fish the steelhead are 2 salt+...it isn't worth the risk of losing a once in a lifetime fish.
     
  9. JesseC

    JesseC Active Member

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    I think I was using the wrong clear beads ;) You are such an asshole Brazda. Good thing I like that about ya!
     
  10. golfman65

    golfman65 Guest

    Damn brazda...that p90x must really work, you dropped a ton!!! That is one bad ass net by the way too..

    Kind of fun ain't it Jesse??

    What's funny is when I first took up fly fishing I thought you were supposed to dip you flies? I even used to bring along my jensen egg's and dip them in there....then I found out on a fly only river and almost got smacked..when you have been gear fishing for a long time you just think it's normal to use it..

    Water types and temp aside...sure is fun to swing..
    Brazda said something last year about how guys swing that is golden...word on that..

    I don't use anything above 12lb....don't buy any reason for higher but lack of knowledge and that's no slam on anyone..
     
  11. Sean Beauchamp

    Sean Beauchamp Hot and Heavy at yer 6

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    I like heavy tippet because I like rolling boulders over and getting my beautiful, time consuming, material intensive intruders back. I have one hanging in my tying cave that is a testiment to the breaking strength of 15# maxima. Takes a lot of dead pull to fold large lead eyes into a taco. A new hook and 2 casts later and it wasn't a rock that got ahold of my fly ;)

    It was actually a comment someone made in one of these identical flouro/heavy tippet debates that sent me to the local tackle shop to buy some heavier cable. I think I said "so what happens when you hang up and have to break that stuff off??" Some smart ass said "you don't, you get your fly back." Point taken!

    Well done Jesse, good luck in your endeavors.
     
  12. golfman65

    golfman65 Guest

    What are you running sean? 12lb maxima is like 17lb or higher...(OK wait a minute I re read your post and your running 15 lb) my problem with anything bigger is two fold...
    One...If I hook something and do want to brake it off...12lb is still a mother but will break..
    Two...If I hook something, lets say like a huge wild and don't want to kill the thing trying to get it in...point and pull...Seen lots of salmon foul hooked and dragged all over cause the guy couldn't break it off...

    Here's my point in all of this....we are for the most part fishing C&R right now...12lb max. would and should handle any fish with the right skill set...I feel if I can't get a fish in quickly on that then I'm not doing something right....If by chance I hook some pig I would rather lose it quick and keep it in the gene pool then play the sucker to death for a hero shot....

    I'm not saying that as some holier then thou...as I think I got a damn good shot at it with 12lb. the fish in my avatar is 38" big wild fish that did aerials and lots of runs...I had 10lb max. on there and it was never a concern...with any tippet just make sure you check it and change it regularly..

    Now if we're talking flouro. or some other tippet...then hell yes you can go up...especially flouro. I use 10lb on that for chironomids up north as anything less will snap in a heartbeat...as I found out...

    freaking maxima is way under line rated...IMHO
     
  13. Sean Beauchamp

    Sean Beauchamp Hot and Heavy at yer 6

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    For winter, 15# maxima mono or if I feel like I need to get a little deeper or if water is clear 15# seaguar

    You would honestly point your rod at a 40" buck? BULLSHIT! If I foul hooked a chum with 15# my hook would straighten before I would lose my fly. I straightened out an owner 1/0 on a hoh logpile last week. Still have the fly. I would sketched out to run 20# only because my running line is 30# mono and I would hate to cut too close and lose a skagit head to a snag.

    To salmo: I respect your tippet choice! You've been doing this a long time if it works for you why change eh? Have you ever popped off fish when going for the tail or at that point in the "fight" is landing the fish a non isssue (ie you got the best of em, let em be)? Maybe my inexperienced hands are to blame, but after leadering a fish I've seen how easy one headshake can pop maxima or straighten lightwire hooks if I'm not careful. Another reason I like to err on the heavy side.

    But what do I know I'm just one guy out there flailing at em like the rest. I lack the years of wisdom. Just making it work for me as I learn about this game we call steelheading.... I need to get back to the river.
     
  14. Matthew Gulbranson

    Matthew Gulbranson Resident Swinger

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    Sean - Ditto! I have never had a problem breaking 15# mono. Just grab the reel and pull back = snap! I'm always changing out line as well because of the abrasion. But it works for me. We all have our preferences, and we are all 'right' in that respect.

    I'm feeling a little withdrawal after the PS rivers are closed...need my fix of not catching fish!
     
  15. Brazda

    Brazda Fly Fishing guide "The Bogy House" Lodge

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    Its about time some one has noticed,,:):):rofl:

    This season its Twenty or 15 MINIMUM..Spey casting is so violent and the size of the flies make it necessary...